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Just found it mentioned on the wiki. But then, despite sources and policies and stuff, most still dismiss it as noncanon for some reason, so I must still ask.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 23:23:40
Well, from that wiki you cited it seems that the Lathe Pattern Jump Pack comes from the FFG game, Rogue Trader. So sure, there's an example right there. Though studio fluff or indeed any other fluff may contradict this, but it's out there.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Just found it mentioned on the wiki. But then, despite sources and policies and stuff, most still dismiss it as noncanon for some reason
Notice how the sources are all just clumped at the bottom, and not actually connected to the information? Sure they're present, but you don't actually know what's come from where, or if it even came from one of those sources. There's also the issue that those policies don't seem to be too strictly enforced at times, as lots of "iffy" information does creep in. For example, large parts of the Miriael Sabathiel page are fanfiction, and it mis-cites a few sources. Stuff like this has led to some people coming to distrust it as an accurate source of information.
Meanwhile, the Lexicanum has a tighter reign on this stuff, specifically matching information to sources and sticking [citation needed] tags in when something does go uncited (or just outright reverting the edit), so it's generally regarded as more reliable. Still not 100% accurate all the time, but still quite good.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/13 02:46:34
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
Just found it mentioned on the wiki. But then, despite sources and policies and stuff, most still dismiss it as noncanon for some reason, so I must still ask.
DOW is a bad example of nearly anything in W40K and is more like an RTS version of the tabletop than it is a representation of the fluff. Fluff-wise, Jump Packs actually provide extended flight time, so you actually fly for short to longer periods of time. They're more similar to that one jetpack made in real life that functions like an actual jet strapped onto your back than normal sci fi jet packs which allow you to hover or make large jumps. A naked human strapped to a jump pack would likely die from an inability to land it. A human in power armor could certainly survive it so long as they weren't idiots when it came to flying it. There of course are different types of jump/jet packs in W40K, the Elysian Drop Troops being a superb example of IG paratrooper/airborne infantry.
Spoiler:
I especially wouldn't use DOW animations as an example of anything either.
As for the W40K wiki, they practically copy/paste entire Codices. Their general information is generally alright, but otherwise I'd stick to the Lexicanum because they actually know how to cite sources, and keep up with the black library. (For example, several pages on book events for the W40K wiki are just terrible and the author clearly didn't even read the book. They just C/P'd the back cover and nothing else.) Just in general, the Lexicanum is vastly more trustworthy than the W40K wiki for everything ranging from events to armory.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 02:57:56
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
They use a piece of technology called "grav chutes", which essentially are one-use items that they ditch when they get to the ground. The main piece of the grav chute is an anti-gravity suspensor field and the two jets on the side are used for course corrections.
Astartes jump packs as well cannot be used for actual flight, instead they are used for bounding leaps with the jump packs aiding and to brake descent.
They use a piece of technology called "grav chutes", which essentially are one-use items that they ditch when they get to the ground. The main piece of the grav chute is an anti-gravity suspensor field and the two jets on the side are used for course corrections.
Astartes jump packs as well cannot be used for actual flight, instead they are used for bounding leaps with the jump packs aiding and to brake descent.
Except y'know, when they do. Quite often in fact. Especially with Chaos Night Lords. The Jump Packs seen in the Black Library are quite different than the mechanics of the tabletop (as it is with most things). Their 'bounding leaps' are more aptly described as several hundred meter bursts of flight until they run out of fuel. Or they just fly with them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 03:23:21
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Kanluwen wrote: I don't remember them ever being used for actual flight, which implies that there is controlled maneuvering.
That's kinda the job of Chaos Raptors.
Jump troops are not flyers.
The various descriptions of Raptors has them as making 'short hops' assisted by their jump packs.
Aaron Dembski-Bowden has a great description of them in his short story "The Core" in one of the short story collections.
Kanluwen wrote: I don't remember them ever being used for actual flight, which implies that there is controlled maneuvering.
That's kinda the job of Chaos Raptors.
Jump troops are not flyers.
The various descriptions of Raptors has them as making 'short hops' assisted by their jump packs.
Aaron Dembski-Bowden has a great description of them in his short story "The Core" in one of the short story collections.
And then we have other examples of them sustaining constant flight. The job of a Raptor specifically to fly around the battlefield and smash down on enemy weakpoints with their assorted specialist weapons. Warp Talons meanwhile as even specifically described as taking long flights hunting down their targets.
That and the tabletop has little bearing on the actual representation of W40K in the fluff at all. Simply because it is not a flyer in the rules has no bearing at all in how they behave in the fluff. Their only restriction is fuel.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
It's also important to remember that Raptors/Warp Talons have long been exposed to the Warp to the point where those jump packs are y'know...heavily altered.
Whom actually use their jump packs with more agility than Marines do.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 04:01:49
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Kanluwen wrote: It's also important to remember that Raptors/Warp Talons have long been exposed to the Warp to the point where those jump packs are y'know...heavily altered.
Even then those not exposed much to the warp, the Iron Warriors, are also capable of sustained flight. The problem isn't inability or lack of control, it's fuel. You're fully capable of swooping around. But unless your jump pack is tainted or you're carrying extra fuel, getting stuck in a horde of Orks with no extraction with all your fuel running dry sucks.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Troike wrote: OP did specify without the use of power armour, though. The only example of which seems to be in FFG's Rogue Trader RPG.
Yes but that's not what the title of the thread asks.
Don't know why people think that power armor = marines. I never got that impression.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 13:20:37
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Troike wrote: OP did specify without the use of power armour, though. The only example of which seems to be in FFG's Rogue Trader RPG.
Yes but that's not what the title of the thread asks.
Don't know why people think that power armor = marines. I never got that impression.
Regular humans don't use Power Armour.
I'd by no means call a SoB or Inquisitor 'regular'. They are by definition extraordinary, particularly obviously so in the case of the Inquisitors. Techpriests wear PA too, but they are not particularly regular either.
You just misunderstood the thread title. A Guardsman is regular. He is just a trained Joe with a Lasgun. Could he use a Jump Pack?
Also, reading more than the thread title usually helps...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/13 13:38:31
Kanluwen wrote: It's also important to remember that Raptors/Warp Talons have long been exposed to the Warp to the point where those jump packs are y'know...heavily altered.
Even then those not exposed much to the warp, the Iron Warriors, are also capable of sustained flight. The problem isn't inability or lack of control, it's fuel. You're fully capable of swooping around. But unless your jump pack is tainted or you're carrying extra fuel, getting stuck in a horde of Orks with no extraction with all your fuel running dry sucks.
I don't recall seeing any exacting figures about Iron Warriors and their Warp exposure or how their Raptor Cults work.
I believe they likely could if they were the correct size for them to use, and they accelerated enough on the decent so they didn't slam into the ground on impact.
That being said, the IG would likely never spend that much in the way of resources on a bog-standard guardsman.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 14:03:53
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
Apart from the obvious (Sisters of Battle and Inquisitors are human after all) there are references to "conventional" humans using them too.
Look:
Spoiler:
This is supposed to be PDF troopers, belonging to the Army of the Scintillan Protectorate (which is a PDF). Below Imperial Guard in most senses. It is called "Frontis Attack", by Marcin Jakubowski, as a request for the The Black Sepulchre book, a supplement for Dark Heresy.
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
Unaugmented-- IE "regular"-- humans use them all the time.
Most humans never will, because they're rare and expensive and most humans live in poverty. But most humans also can, with the right training and the right access, make use of them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/13 14:09:17
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Apart from the obvious (Sisters of Battle and Inquisitors are human after all) there are references to "conventional" humans using them too.
Look:
Spoiler:
This is supposed to be PDF troopers, belonging to the Army of the Scintillan Protectorate (which is a PDF). Below Imperial Guard in most senses. It is called "Frontis Attack", by Marcin Jakubowski, as a request for the The Black Sepulchre book, a supplement for Dark Heresy.
They sort of look closer to jump packs than grav chutes, but that could just be artistic license.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Unaugmented-- IE "regular"-- humans use them all the time.
Most humans never will, because they're rare and expensive and most humans live in poverty. But most humans also can, with the right training and the right access, make use of them.
No, regular, as in, not extraordinary.
Not regular, as in, simply not massive and overpowered.
SoB are elite troops, they are not regular.
Inquisitors are inquisitors, they are not regular.
Guardsmen are basic infantry, they are regular.
See what I mean?
But I can clarify just for you; Can a Guardsman use a Jump Pack?
Even the Imperial Guard does not fit your definition of "regular".
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
As Melissia says, the way they are depicted made me think otherwise. Not sure anymore.
I still think the answer to your question is a "yes"
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
When I look at that image I see them dropping out of the Valk, but then the guy on the ramp confuses me. He looks like he's getting in, but kind of doesn't at the same time. DAMN YOU VAGUE ART!
I'd imagine some kind of specifically engineered Jump Pack could work. If they used a Space Marine jump pack they'd probably end up as a bloody smear on the ground.
As Melissia says, the way they are depicted made me think otherwise. Not sure anymore.
I still think the answer to your question is a "yes"
Grav-chutes have two components.
You have the "central" component, which is the anti-grav generator which slows the user's fall.
The two jets on spars are the maneuvering controls, which allow for the user to correct their drop.
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. 
10000 pts
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