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I tried to post in an existing thread, but got warned about necroposting.

Has anyone recently played at a major tournament and seen how this was decided? One of our upcoming ones has ruled NO, a commander can't join the riptide because the drones are wargear, but most players seem itching to allow it and are quoting the internet.

Whoever rules that should read the Tau codex about drones.
They aren't "wargear".

Well every major tournament has allowed it, sooooooo.

Classic "Im butt hurt over getting beat by the buffmander", It doesn't matter what unit he is in it'll make it stupid as hell to deal with.

Well I recently bought a commander, kroot, and a riptide for Xmas and wanted to do just that.

If I'm able to, great. If I'm not, then I don't particularly want him to just be able to join the kroot (though I don't MIND that, in certain situations, as twin-linking their rifles with monster hunter and ignores cover would still be great), and would wait until I got some broadsides to include with it.

I feel kind of bad though, I told a guy at a recent tournament (he wasn't even my opponent, just a table nearby that asked) that he couldn't, due to my conversation with said TO that was also running that tournament. Would be kind of a dick move to now show up to the FLGS and do exactly that.

So every major tournament has been allowing it?

The rules in the brb clearly state an independent character cannot join vehicle squadrons or models that ALWAYS consist of a single model. That's verbatim.

This sinks the argument right there, because regardless of drones being wargear they ARE a model. Because riptides can take more models he does not fit the description. So there you have it really.

That was kind of my take on it, but ah well. TO will be TO.

I'll start playing around with Tau allies in my normal lists though, I think. Yay for super deadly riptide!

 Spellbound wrote:
Well I recently bought a commander, kroot, and a riptide for Xmas and wanted to do just that.

If I'm able to, great. If I'm not, then I don't particularly want him to just be able to join the kroot (though I don't MIND that, in certain situations, as twin-linking their rifles with monster hunter and ignores cover would still be great), and would wait until I got some broadsides to include with it.

I feel kind of bad though, I told a guy at a recent tournament (he wasn't even my opponent, just a table nearby that asked) that he couldn't, due to my conversation with said TO that was also running that tournament. Would be kind of a dick move to now show up to the FLGS and do exactly that.

So every major tournament has been allowing it?

Its never been an issue. Its only the special types that will give you problems.

That's one of those situations you should ask about beforehand. Especially if you are playing against this TO in the future. If I'm playing in an event, I like to skim my list in advance and email the TO with a list of possible rules snafus. Pretty much anything I've seen a heated debate about here on Dakka, even if (as in this case) the answer should be obvious. I've had TOs make some pretty arbitrary calls, based not on what the rules said but what they thought the rules should say, so it never hurts to find out what you've got waiting for you ahead of time.

Yeah know a guys who does that but with a Eldar Spirit, or Prophet or whatever the hell it is.

Personnaly i think they can do it, IF THEY HAVE THE DRONES so that they form a unit.

No drones= no unit= can't be joined, but it isn't faqed in any way for now.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah know a guys who does that but with a Eldar Spirit, or Prophet or whatever the hell it is.

Personnaly i think they can do it, IF THEY HAVE THE DRONES so that they form a unit.

No drones= no unit= can't be joined, but it isn't faqed in any way for now.

only....single models are units in their own right.....

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah know a guys who does that but with a Eldar Spirit, or Prophet or whatever the hell it is.

Personnaly i think they can do it, IF THEY HAVE THE DRONES so that they form a unit.

No drones= no unit= can't be joined, but it isn't faqed in any way for now.

Your shouting section is entirely wrong, as per page 39

Is the Riptide a unit that can only ever consist of a single model? No? Then an IC can join. Thats it.

Riptides are units of a SINGLE model, the difference is that they can buy drones.

Now in 5th Dex drones where just wargear items and din't dount has squad members, even though they took hits and wounds.

Now they have changed that and they count has squad members.

it still doesn't change the fact that at first a Riptide is a unit of ONE Monstruous Creature, that can be expanded of course with additional models, but if there is no drones, why does its unit composition magickally change?

Now the funny part about drones, kill them and the Rip takes a Morale test.

 nutty_nutter wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah know a guys who does that but with a Eldar Spirit, or Prophet or whatever the hell it is.

Personnaly i think they can do it, IF THEY HAVE THE DRONES so that they form a unit.

No drones= no unit= can't be joined, but it isn't faqed in any way for now.

only....single models are units in their own right.....

Like Carnifexes or Deamon princes or De Talos, but you don't see people makaing them join or be able to join squads now do you?

At least Dprinces could, given that they are IC's, but even so they can't, because they are UNITS of one single model, and thus can't join or be joined, so why a Riptid would be different?

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Riptides are units of a SINGLE model, the difference is that they can buy drones.

Now in 5th Dex drones where just wargear items and din't dount has squad members, even though they took hits and wounds.

Now they have changed that and they count has squad members.

it still doesn't change the fact that at first a Riptide is a unit of ONE Monstruous Creature, that can be expanded of course with additional models, but if there is no drones, why does its unit composition magickally change?

Now the funny part about drones, kill them and the Rip takes a Morale test.

If the drones are squad members then the Riptide is not a unit that always consists of a single model.
Read page 39. What's the requirement for an IC to join?

Doesn't change that the unit entry for the Riptid is still "1 Riptide" and not " 1 Riptid and 0-2 Drones".

So its still stay a unit of a single model IF it doesn't take any drones, and thats what i'm getting at.

Now if it takes drones, then yes.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Doesn't change that the unit entry for the Riptid is still "1 Riptide" and not " 1 Riptid and 0-2 Drones".

So its still stay a unit of a single model IF it doesn't take any drones, and thats what i'm getting at.

Now if it takes drones, then yes.

So it has the potential to be more than a single model unit?
Meaning it's not always a single model unit?

It's a simple question. You're inserting requirements that simply do not exist in the rules.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

At least Dprinces could, given that they are IC's,

No they aren't. Daemon princes are characters, not independant characters. Big distinction. They do not have the independant special character USR.

Carnifexes have a unit composition of 1 Carnifex.
Nothing changes this unit composition.
Are you saying Fexes can't be joined?

rigeld2 wrote:
Carnifexes have a unit composition of 1 Carnifex.
Nothing changes this unit composition.
Are you saying Fexes can't be joined?

That is correct.

 SRSFACE wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Carnifexes have a unit composition of 1 Carnifex.
Nothing changes this unit composition.
Are you saying Fexes can't be joined?

That is correct.

It's actually not - a Carnifex Brood is not a unit that only ever consists of a single model.

But they can add 2 carnifexes. Are they wargear?

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Doesn't change that the unit entry for the Riptid is still "1 Riptide" and not " 1 Riptid and 0-2 Drones".

So its still stay a unit of a single model IF it doesn't take any drones, and thats what i'm getting at.

Now if it takes drones, then yes.

Do you own the tau codex?

Flip to the crisis suit page... See that it says unit composition of 1 crisis suit?

Are you claiming a commander can not join a single crisis suit?

It's no different than the riptide. If the unit does not always consist of a single model it can be joined. Riptides CAN take drones which means they are not ALWAYS a single model unit.

That's the rules as they are written.

Even better example would be the bodyguards;
A unit designed to be put with an independent character, it has a Special Rules designed for interaction with an independent Characters, but it also has a unit composition of only 1 listed on the Army List.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Doesn't change that the unit entry for the Riptid is still "1 Riptide" and not " 1 Riptid and 0-2 Drones".

So its still stay a unit of a single model IF it doesn't take any drones, and thats what i'm getting at.

Now if it takes drones, then yes.

So it has the potential to be more than a single model unit?
Meaning it's not always a single model unit?

It's a simple question. You're inserting requirements that simply do not exist in the rules.

The Crisis suit unit consists of 1 crisis suit too, so you mean to say buffmander can't join them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BarBoBot wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Doesn't change that the unit entry for the Riptid is still "1 Riptide" and not " 1 Riptid and 0-2 Drones".

So its still stay a unit of a single model IF it doesn't take any drones, and thats what i'm getting at.

Now if it takes drones, then yes.

Do you own the tau codex?

Flip to the crisis suit page... See that it says unit composition of 1 crisis suit?

Are you claiming a commander can not join a single crisis suit?

It's no different than the riptide. If the unit does not always consist of a single model it can be joined. Riptides CAN take drones which means they are not ALWAYS a single model unit.

That's the rules as they are written.

I would like to add that an Independent Character can never join a Dark Eldar Talos or Cronos because those models will ever only consist of one model. They cannot be taken in pairs or more.

Slayer le boucher wrote:Riptides are units of a SINGLE model,

No, the Riptide unit can consist of up to 3 models, 1 riptide and 2 drones.

Slayer le boucher wrote: the difference is that they can buy drones.

which are members of the unit...meaning the riptide unit doesnt ALWAYS consist of one model, does it?

Slayer le boucher wrote:Now in 5th Dex drones where just wargear items and din't dount has squad members, even though they took hits and wounds.

One, it was a 4th edition codex, and Two, no they were "squad members" - they were models, in all rights, bought as wargear options. They caused morale checks etc, just as any other model.

Slayer le boucher wrote:Now they have changed that and they count has squad members.

No, they havent changed, they are still members of the unit

Slayer le boucher wrote:it still doesn't change the fact that at first a Riptide is a unit of ONE Monstruous Creature, that can be expanded of course with additional models, but if there is no drones, why does its unit composition magickally change?

Noone says it does. However, that isnt what page 39 asks - it asks is it ALWAYS a unit of one model? The answer is, of course, NO - because it has the POSSIBILITY to have more than one model in the unit.

Slayer le boucher wrote:Like Carnifexes

Carnifex can be 1 - 3 in a unit. Have been for 2 codexes now. Do you own either the 5th or 6th edition codex?

Slayer le boucher wrote: or Deamon princes or De Talos, but you don't see people makaing them join or be able to join squads now do you?

Because DP and Talos are ALWAYS units that can consist of one model - note you cannot add models to a daemon prince unit, or a talos? That is the difference youa re somehow failing to see....

Slayer le boucher wrote:At least Dprinces could, given that they are IC's,

In what book are they ICs? I cant even recall them being ICs in 3.5, when e.g. necrons had MC ICs....

Slayer le boucher wrote: but even so they can't, because they are UNITS of one single model, and thus can't join or be joined, so why a Riptid would be different?

1) An IC is ALWAYS a unit that consists of one model, yet page 39 has an explicit exception that allows ICs to join ICs. Do you own the rulebook? This is clear. 2) The restriction is on joining units that always consist of one model, not being joined BY a unit that always consists of one model. Again, page 39 is very, very clear on this, and 3) for the reasons explained a riptifde UNIT isnt always a unit that consists of one model; it can consist of 1 - 3 models - 1 riptide and 2 drones

THAT is what makes it different, and is VERY clear

So according to some people here a unit of grey hunters that was reduced to a single model couldnt be joined by an ic.

They cannot join"units that always consist of a single model".

Since a tau riptide is not a unit that always consist of a single model (because sometimes it has drones with it) it can be joined. Simple as that. To make the restriction work how some people advocate it it would have to read they "cannot join units that were included in your army list as a single model" or something similar. But ... its not worded that way so a riptide can always be joined since its not always a unit of 1.

Yeah my bad on Fexes, did see so little of them since 3Rd Ed, that i completly forgot you could take 3 of them in a brood.

The wording of page 39 in the french rules doesn't stat units that are always of 1 model, just units of 1 models.

Once again proof that the proof-reading at GW france is really poor.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah my bad on Fexes, did see so little of them since 3Rd Ed, that i completly forgot you could take 3 of them in a brood.

The wording of page 39 in the french rules doesn't stat units that are always of 1 model, just units of 1 models.

Once again proof that the proof-reading at GW france is really poor.

Except the French rules do state the "Always consist of a single model part".
" ou des unités qui ne sont toujours formées que d'une seule figurine ..."
Try again.

Ouias moi qui a bésoin d'une nouvelle paire de lunettes...

The rule difference here is with regards to Monstrous Creatures. Look there.