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This is not a question about Warmachine/Horde so to speak, but rather the universe of Iron Kingdoms. If you were expecting Warmahordes, move along. There is nothing for you here.

I am currently a part of an Iron Kingdoms campaign - I am playing the team Warcaster and I am having fun doing so. We are an adventuring company who have our own mansion somewhere in outer Caspia and are payed to recover artifacts and chart dangerous territory. Something have been wrong, though - As a Warcaster and major 'Jack-fan, I can't help but blapper about 'Jacks. I knew this wouldn't end well, as we were playing a game of exploration, where a 'Jack wouldn't make sense. My GM, however, suprised me the other day...

As we was selling our spoils from the second mission, my character suddenly ran into a lot of deals to get some absolutely prime quality warjack resources. I expect this to be a cookie from my GM, as I have been making some pretty nice fanart of the campaign - I suspect he wants to thank me! I don't have a problem with that at all - actually, it was just fine, atlough some things seemed a bit out there.

First, an Arcanum Cortex-blueprint with instructions that makes it more "organic" in its deals with humans and such. Great!

An experiemental Hunter-chassis with better and more powerful joints that allow it to jump and run better and more quiet. Has less armour though. Cool stuff.

Here is the fun one - A runeplate for the head, that allows it to, supposeply, talk, if given a source of output. Wat.


Long Intro is long, but here is the main deal - do any of you fluff bunny find this a possability? Could Cygnar produce an expensive Light Warjacks with focus on reconnance and verbal exchange? Is there even technology for such a feat?

IF such technology exists, it's Cyrissian in nature, but it wouldn't be for Jacks, as they frown upon artificial intelligence.

It would most likely be a modification of whatever allows the Cyriss cultists to speak through their clockwork bodies. By modified, I mean altered to work with a cortex rather than a human soul.

I doubt the military would find it useful(especially since the CRS exists and works just fine without Jacks) and the cost would be prohibitively expensive enough that you'd need a noble(if not the Crown) behind it to fund it. Not to mention how one would get Cyrissist attention much less agree to give you the specs for that sort of thing. Nemo got their assistance for the Squire, but he's Nemo.

Jacks don't 'talk' per se.

Think less 'person', and more 'dog'.

They'll communicate via posture, body language, hissing of steam, groaning of metal, clanky bits etc.

IMO, far more in the spirit of the universe.

Warjacks are semi intelligent and they can show 'feelings'


Have you played Half Life 2? Imagine Dog.

I think a talking jack would be possible but far enough beyond plausibility to make it being on a random adventurer's warjack basically impossible.

As Deadnight says, Jacks are more like dogs than people.

You could have an upgraded cortex and manual dexterity to allow the jack to communicate via sign language. But it would still be very basic communication, such as "I need refueling", "enemies coming!", or "where should I go?"

You certainly wouldn't have anything approaching a conversation with a jack.

Deadnight wrote:Jacks don't 'talk' per se.

Think less 'person', and more 'dog'.

They'll communicate via posture, body language, hissing of steam, groaning of metal, clanky bits etc.

IMO, far more in the spirit of the universe.

welshhoppo wrote:Warjacks are semi intelligent and they can show 'feelings'


Have you played Half Life 2? Imagine Dog.

Deadnight wrote:Jacks don't 'talk' per se.

Think less 'person', and more 'dog'.

They'll communicate via posture, body language, hissing of steam, groaning of metal, clanky bits etc.

IMO, far more in the spirit of the universe.

I know that 'Jacks work like very intelligent dogs, who can learn quite a lot of human manner if allowed, but that wasn't the question anyway - It was, if you think it would be possible to make the systems to allow a *Jack speech. This doesn't mean it will be using actual sentences ("What a fine day, master. Ready to hammer in some heads with my Quake Hammer?"), but using singlular words to express certain things to a possiple 'Jack Marshal ("Enemy. 50 yards."), who can't see what the 'Jack sees the way a 'Caster can.

The runeplates to allow a cortex to make information into speech would be complicated and require some kind of speaker to function as output, I reckon. If it is possible in universe, I can't say, which is why I ask you guys.

'No' is the answer then.

They are not exactly the same as dogs. But close enough that if you are trying to decide how smart a jack would be decide if a dog could do it or not.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

I know that 'Jacks work like very intelligent dogs, who can learn quite a lot of human manner if allowed, but that wasn't the question anyway - It was, if you think it would be possible to make the systems to allow a *Jack speech. This doesn't mean it will be using actual sentences ("What a fine day, master. Ready to hammer in some heads with my Quake Hammer?"), but using singlular words to express certain things to a possiple 'Jack Marshal ("Enemy. 50 yards."), who can't see what the 'Jack sees the way a 'Caster can.

The runeplates to allow a cortex to make information into speech would be complicated and require some kind of speaker to function as output, I reckon. If it is possible in universe, I can't say, which is why I ask you guys.

You probably could if you really set your mind to it, although such a project would arguably be more the wheelhouse of an eccentric arcane mechanik trying to develop a proof of concept rather than as a serious IK military project. I do think you could have some interesting opportunities for RP though, particularly if you play with "being able to speak" versus "being able to understand": one of the old tables for 'jack eccentricities in the D20 RPG included stuff like a warjack aping religious rituals or imitating a 'jack marshall's limp (even if there was no actual problem with its leg), so there could be some fun in trying to teach comprehension rather than mimicry lest you wind up with a warjack that's going to say "enemy 50 yards" every time someone crosses the street.

In theory, this could be relatively possible, but it wouldn't strictly speaking, be a jack.

Cyriss have the ability to translate soul bound information into verbalization and motion. They don't believe in artificial intelligence (it is heresy to them), so they have no need of applying it to a 'jack.

You could have a sort of possessed jack that communicates via such a device, but then it isn't really the machine speaking, but rather the soul that has possessed it. In any case, it would then just become a big Lich type creature.

Doug Seacat (who essentially is the go to for Privateer Press's staff when someone has a history/world question) has compared a 'jack to a calculator. I'm paraphrasing here, but:

The Warjack can't complete mathmatical problems, but it is much, much better at killing things.

The Warjack can't complete mathmatical problems, but it is much, much better at killing things.

I don't know, I've seen some calculators that could be used as a deadly weapon.

 Grey Templar wrote:

The Warjack can't complete mathmatical problems, but it is much, much better at killing things.

I don't know, I've seen some calculators that could be used as a deadly weapon.

i've had some classes that made me want to use a calculator as a deadly weapon

 greenskin lynn wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

The Warjack can't complete mathmatical problems, but it is much, much better at killing things.

I don't know, I've seen some calculators that could be used as a deadly weapon.

i've had some classes that made me want to use a calculator as a deadly weapon

^

Maybe the Warjack could write out what he wanted to say.

In the Dark Convergence book it describes a rubber diaphragm as the method by which a Convergence trooper was able to make sounds. Seeing as how they already made a mention in the Convergence army book about Cyriss doing something with science that Cygnar does with magic (generate electricity) I have no issue with the actual technology existing.

If you gave a Jack the ability to talk and modified its cortex to recognize that it had such an ability I don't see why it couldn't be able to string together a bank of pre-stored phrases triggered by various situations. The actual output function wouldn't be much different than programming a cortex to use a weapon. Just a case of "recognize situation, consult phrase bank for appropriate response, execute response through output device (i.e. rune plate speaker)".


That said, I doubt you'd be able to get any kind of intelligent conversation out of it though.

P.S. It does, however, open up the interesting possibility of a warcaster putting such a jack in his battlegroup and "spending focus" to talk through it. That could be cool.

Yeah, it certainly could be done. But the benefits are dubious and considering the massive expense it wouldn't be anything more than some mad delusion of a crazy mechanik.

Ey, fellow 'Casters and 'Locks, i have been talking with my GM about the talking 'Jack. Here is his explanation:

The 'Jack is not meant to be in a 'Caster's battlegropu (though it certainly can). It is meant to be around the command of other, more far away divisions during battle. A 'Caster cn always be bonded to a mekanikal thing, no matter the distance, and therefor can the 'Caster send the 'Jack messages through the usual telepathic thinking, and the 'Jack will then say the message to whoever is in charge of the division.

It can also be used as a front line support unit, allowing the 'Caster to "be" at the frontlines and talk to the troops, while actually being a long distance away from the actual fight. This, of course, doesn't mean the thing can get focus from such a distance, but it is helped a bit by using a modified Hunter's chassis, who have a double range for focus-accumilation.

So, basically gives the machine a CMD stat.

Also, should help the 'JAck learn by utilizing speech, the way humans do.



I dunno, guys. I am buying it.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Ey, fellow 'Casters and 'Locks, i have been talking with my GM about the talking 'Jack. Here is his explanation:

The 'Jack is not meant to be in a 'Caster's battlegropu (though it certainly can). It is meant to be around the command of other, more far away divisions during battle. A 'Caster cn always be bonded to a mekanikal thing, no matter the distance, and therefor can the 'Caster send the 'Jack messages through the usual telepathic thinking, and the 'Jack will then say the message to whoever is in charge of the division.

It can also be used as a front line support unit, allowing the 'Caster to "be" at the frontlines and talk to the troops, while actually being a long distance away from the actual fight. This, of course, doesn't mean the thing can get focus from such a distance, but it is helped a bit by using a modified Hunter's chassis, who have a double range for focus-accumilation.

So, basically gives the machine a CMD stat.

Also, should help the 'JAck learn by utilizing speech, the way humans do.



I dunno, guys. I am buying it.

So what you're saying is that the warcaster can talk through the warjack?

While a jack and a warcaster's bond can be felt over long distances, the quality of the communication decreases significantly.

While a caster and jack might be able to feel each other over hundreds of miles, it wouldn't be anything more than a vague sense of direction and maybe larger emotions. Certainly not enough to give specific commands.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Ey, fellow 'Casters and 'Locks, i have been talking with my GM about the talking 'Jack. Here is his explanation:

The 'Jack is not meant to be in a 'Caster's battlegropu (though it certainly can). It is meant to be around the command of other, more far away divisions during battle. A 'Caster cn always be bonded to a mekanikal thing, no matter the distance, and therefor can the 'Caster send the 'Jack messages through the usual telepathic thinking, and the 'Jack will then say the message to whoever is in charge of the division.

It can also be used as a front line support unit, allowing the 'Caster to "be" at the frontlines and talk to the troops, while actually being a long distance away from the actual fight. This, of course, doesn't mean the thing can get focus from such a distance, but it is helped a bit by using a modified Hunter's chassis, who have a double range for focus-accumilation.

So, basically gives the machine a CMD stat.

Also, should help the 'JAck learn by utilizing speech, the way humans do.



I dunno, guys. I am buying it.

(Gah! Youtube, why you no co-operate? Skip to 40 seconds for the relevance!)

Sorry, nope. I just don't see it as a role a Warjack would be used for. Not for nations like Cygnar anyway (CoC more than likely) Things like reconnaissance could be done more easily and stealthily using things like Rangers, not being accompanied by a smoke belching, clanking Warjack.

I get what all of you are saying. I told him that I would give the head and plate back to Cyngar, as he don't want something that important go in the hand of the enemy (A mercenary who cares for a country? How about that).

Thanks for your input - It helped me quite a lot! Now I am waiting until next thursday. Maybe I should paint my Cygnar Battlebox until then?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Ey, fellow 'Casters and 'Locks, i have been talking with my GM about the talking 'Jack. Here is his explanation:

The 'Jack is not meant to be in a 'Caster's battlegropu (though it certainly can). It is meant to be around the command of other, more far away divisions during battle. A 'Caster cn always be bonded to a mekanikal thing, no matter the distance, and therefor can the 'Caster send the 'Jack messages through the usual telepathic thinking, and the 'Jack will then say the message to whoever is in charge of the division.

It can also be used as a front line support unit, allowing the 'Caster to "be" at the frontlines and talk to the troops, while actually being a long distance away from the actual fight. This, of course, doesn't mean the thing can get focus from such a distance, but it is helped a bit by using a modified Hunter's chassis, who have a double range for focus-accumilation.

So, basically gives the machine a CMD stat.

Also, should help the 'JAck learn by utilizing speech, the way humans do.



I dunno, guys. I am buying it.

(Gah! Youtube, why you no co-operate? Skip to 40 seconds for the relevance!)

Sorry, nope. I just don't see it as a role a Warjack would be used for. Not for nations like Cygnar anyway (CoC more than likely) Things like reconnaissance could be done more easily and stealthily using things like Rangers, not being accompanied by a smoke belching, clanking Warjack.

This is a setting where dragon-worshipping Dark Elves [Legion] pose of serious threat to nations with access to heavy artillery. IK isn't interested in practicality.

Also, you could have chosen a more effective video to make point.

 sing your life wrote:
Maybe the Warjack could write out what he wanted to say.

I don't think Jacks know how to read and write. And if they did have you seen those hands? They are meant to fight, not talk and write.

Best thing would be to have a little ticker tape printer in his finger. The jack could just point at you and have the little paper tape start to spool out.
Especially when the message is "As soon as you bend over to pick up the tape, this finger is going to pull out your spinal column."

 Wehrkind wrote:
Best thing would be to have a little ticker tape printer in his finger. The jack could just point at you and have the little paper tape start to spool out.
Especially when the message is "As soon as you bend over to pick up the tape, this finger is going to pull out your spinal column."

I love this idea.