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It's a birthday bat rep! Chris calls Reecius' Nids out with his Iron Hands for his Birthday Battle and Reecius is happy to oblige. -EDIT: Shrouded is conferred onto the entire brood if a single model in it has it, nice! Thanks to Klaus Bak for pointing that out. I cheated on the Zoeys, too! Doh! I rolled a power for each, they only get one extra.

Just look at it this way...had your opponent rolled average it would not have been near as close. Hang in their Reece I know you'll figure it out you're doing good!

Oh noooo, you won, even when he had amazing rolls. That must....mean....the codex sucks?

Somehow that doesn't seem like a very accurate statement.

I, like the rest of the internet, see a problem with nids competing against tau and eldar but everyone does. The ability to play a good, tense game against the other middle of the road armies like, say, orks or chaos marines should mean the codex is perfectly fine.

Good Batrep , and happy b-day to chris.

I was under the impression that the shrouded rule stated that if one model had it the unit gained the rule, though I don't have my rule book on me so I could be completely wrong.

You are correct. If one model has shrouded, the unit gets it.

oh dear god his laughter....his laughter

@Rythem

It says that in the description up top. And yes, you are right, I was wrong on that one =)

@Spellbound

Dude, this book sucks. No question.

Chris has certain specific neurological impairments in real life that makes playing 40K competitively a real challenge for him. He's a great guy but he will never be a tactical master.

And Nids barely won that fight, going first against a very poor deployment. Yes he had amazing dice, but his list had no tools to fight me, really, and I still barely won.

So, am I being pessimistic? Sure, I will accept that. I am bitter and mad at how amateurish this book is. It could have been awesome, but instead it is really awful.

We will see what happens as we unlock more combo, but this is a turd of a codex, straight up.

@Noah

I think we have cracked the code, so to speak, but it is really hard to pull it all together at lower points. I think at 2K, double FoC, Nids will get it done.

Now this may be the optimist in me but maybe it is just because you have not found the correct combo yet to make Tyranids a true force to be reckoned with? I can agree that this is not an amazing book when first looking at it but I do see a few seeds of potential. why not for example focus on swarms of poisoned homagaunts backed by Venomthropes and screening gargoyles and Flytyrants, Crones with Mawlocs for support? A really competitive friend of mine suggested of list like this. and you can always hoped for a bad ass supplement to make the bugs better.

Also if I may ask what would you think about the list with 2 Flytyrants, 3 Chrones or Harpy's and 2 Mawlocs minimum? my twin brother is very interested in going Tyranids and wanted to run this by you.

Eh, nevermind, someone else caught it.

Good job taking a win !

I realy like a lot of FLGs stuff but your tyranid bat reps have been terrible.

The constant "forging a narrative" remarks are amussing because thats exactly what you seem to be doing. Your narrative is that nids suck and your doing your best to forge it in these videos.

Nids probably do suck but your not really giving them a fair shake.


You seem to have a real issue with the Synapse rules which IMO are one of the things they got right with this book. Synapse is a cool mechanic which should matter as it makes list writing and model positioning more strategic. The book should be improved in other areas to remain competative but keep the synapse stuff. Thats assuming that you want a book that is interesting to play rather than just easy to play.

Ahh ok, you edited while I was watching, good to know. Makes you wonder if buying a adl and placing it 1/2 up the table could be worth it. First turn run up to it, as long as they don't have ignore cover weapons you are looking at a 2+ cover save army wide.

My impressions of the nid codex so far is that they are somewhere in the middle of what everyone seems to think they are (which is crap) and where they were last edition, not great but not the end of the world either.

Its like watching poor poor chaos marines all over again, except with no dragon.

Reece. You are bummed, take a break from tyranids and use another army for a bit. I can understand your dissapointment, because as a Dark Angel player my book is fun,but there are some serious shortcomings to it.on the power scale of 40k there is eldar, tau, Necrons and then theres everyone else. I can understand the frustration. It sounds like you had alot of expectations that were not met. Hang in there.

on a more discrete note you gave a good guy one hell of a birthday thrill.

@gmaleron

Don't let my negativity stop your bro from playing Nids, I am just so unhappy with them. Just let him know he is playing hard mode 40K, super hard mode.

We tried a single Mawloc, it was OK. The thing is they are not going to come into play until turn 2 at best, bad reserves and they do nothing till turn 4. I'm not sold on them, yet. I think they will be very hit or miss.

Crones and Harpies die really easily but you may be able to overwhelm someone with 2 Flyrants and 3 Crones.

Tell him good luck!

@Dozer

Thanks, haha, I suppose any victory is something to be happy about at this point.

@Moosatronic

It's funny, the only people that have accused us of having something "scripted" have been British. I wonder if it's a cultural thing?

We absolutely do not do that. I am just pissed and sad about the crappy codex we got. I am sorry to hear you don't like the videos but we are presenting the games honestly, just like we always do. We call it like we see it, rain or shine. You are free to disagree, of course. We are giving them a fair shake too, really, we keep trying! Haha, I think we will find playable lists, but it is like getting kicked in the nuts over and over.

And you think they got Synapse right? Really? Are you just saying that or have you tried it? No one that has played it says that in our experience, yet. Every single person is bummed out by it, big time. It limits what you can do, that isn't tactical at all, it hamstrings you in a huge way. No other armies work within those limitations and as you spread out to get objectives it becomes so limiting.

All the other guy has to do is kill your synapse and the game is over.

But truly, prove me wrong! I would love to eat crowe on Nids.

@Rythem

Yes, and I cheated on Zoeys, too. I rolled an extra power for each which was my bad.

Venomes are pretty solid actually, I think every list will include some, now.

You are probably right in your assessment too, honestly. I am just blinded right now by the horrible book and how it could have been awesome.

@That is what it feels like.

@Polythemus

It is weird, I hate the book viscerally but I am bound and determined to keep trying to find a viable list! Haha, I just need to tone down the negativity on camera, it turns people off.

And yes, haha, Chris was stoked, he said he was going to show his family the video as it was his first YouTube appearance and he was very happy about it. It was good fun, I have never seen someone so happy to play 40K in my life! haha

That's the spirit. I like Chris. He is a bundle of positive energy. We need more players like him in the game. He can lose and still be so happy.

Your negativity towards the codex really didnt put me off. Pretty much always enjoy the banter in your bat reps. Good luck getting a nid list that you enjoy playing !

 Reecius wrote:


All the other guy has to do is kill your synapse and the game is over.

But truly, prove me wrong! I would love to eat crowe on Nids.

Eat Crowe you say?



It is possible, as pointed out in another thread, to make a list that is not entirely dependent on Synapse. Single model Feeder units, for example, do not have a 50% chance of committing auto-cannibalism; instead, they must try to charge the nearest enemy unit, and are allowed to make their move as normal.

I have to admit though, the loss of synapse outcomes look a little too punishing. There's a ~50% chance of something bad, ~33% chance of something decent, and ~17% chance of something interesting.

A fairer way of designing it would have been either ~33% / ~33% / ~33% (as standard, in these sort of cases.) or ~17% / ~66% / ~17.

I think genestealers need to be utilized alot more then people think. With fortifications and venomsthropes they are MUCH more durable and they don't give a gak about synapse. I think gaunts gargs and flyrants will make good distractions but zoies and stealers will win you those objectives. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I agree with Red Corsair. Genestealers have merit.

I like the batrep, along with all the other ones you guys do. I'm just so used to your batreps that I prefer yours, and I dig the honesty. Sometimes it seems like everyone expects you to have to like everything about a codex, and it's out of form to have a negative opinion about things.

@jy2 I agree chris is an awesome player and we need more, he adds alot of joy to the game by being so lighthearted, love it!

@Reesius Do you think GW will do like what they did with C:SM and release a supplement real soon? and do you think it will help fix the problem? I feel it will allow them to ally with themselves and that in itself will be a huge boon.

Hopefully they dont work over Orks like they did nids, im sure it will happen tho just cause us CC horde army players are on the low end of the scale thanks to Taudar, The nids got hit hard but I think they just need some time to work new lists out and a supplement to give the extra FOC slots.

 Reecius wrote:


@Moosatronic

It's funny, the only people that have accused us of having something "scripted" have been British. I wonder if it's a cultural thing?

We absolutely do not do that. I am just pissed and sad about the crappy codex we got. I am sorry to hear you don't like the videos but we are presenting the games honestly, just like we always do. We call it like we see it, rain or shine. You are free to disagree, of course. We are giving them a fair shake too, really, we keep trying! Haha, I think we will find playable lists, but it is like getting kicked in the nuts over and over.

And you think they got Synapse right? Really? Are you just saying that or have you tried it? No one that has played it says that in our experience, yet. Every single person is bummed out by it, big time. It limits what you can do, that isn't tactical at all, it hamstrings you in a huge way. No other armies work within those limitations and as you spread out to get objectives it becomes so limiting.

All the other guy has to do is kill your synapse and the game is over.

But truly, prove me wrong! I would love to eat crowe on Nids.

I was not suggesting your vids were scripted. That would be ridiculous. As for the British thing, perhaps we are less comfortable with the level of emotion on display, stiff upper lip and all that.

Its just that your (understandable) negetivity is heavily influencing the way you describe what is happening in your games.

Im not going to prove you wrong on how competitive the nids are as I dont disagree with you!

Synapse makes you have to think more about how you write and play your list. Thats a good thing in a strategy game. However, it needs to be balanced by the effectivness of the units your using. Units that are affected by synapse need to be made more powerful or cheaper, and units that give synapse need to be more expensive (thats why the prime went up, synapse IC is mega in the new nids).

It would appear that they didnt get this balance quite right, but I think buffing other aspects of the army to make it competative, would lead to a more interesting book than simplifying or removing the synapse mechanic.

@Reecius- Did you write that "Or, how to polish a turd" article over at BoLS? If so, bravo sir.

You know nids is honestly a weird release. If you look at each slot separately out of context then it seems pretty good. Flyrants, carnifex, venomthropes, and biovores are all great. Termigaunts, crones, spore mines, death leaper, Zoanthropes, gargoyles, and the entire heavy support section are all pretty good.

The killer is instinctive behavior is a very negative rule. This is the wrong way to enforce fluff as negative results always give negative feelings to players. A better way to model the fluff would have been to make nids better within synapse rather than worse outside. A great example of fluff to rules is eldar being fast so they have battle focus, this gives a good representation of the fluff but doesn't punish the player. Or SM chapter tactics which all have positive benefits but don't unbalance the book. Notice that the overall feelings about those two books are very positive and the players who play those armies (I play both) love their codex.

The other problem is that the good units do not sync together well. Some of them are fast, some slow, some tough, some long range, some short range, and many of them don't provide synapse and need synapse to fulfill their full potential. This is why double FOC nids seems like it helps a lot. You can spam units with similar range, speed, and damage resiliency...read similar as the exact same.

Reece I would like you to perhaps reign in your negative feelings on the subject a little. I think you took a big disappointment on this and it is still so fresh and ever present for you that it seems like it is feeding on itself,,,oh, sorry. Perhaps, is your disappointment out of synapse?

Perhaps some beerhammer nids games will help. Actually I really like that idea, I petition for beerhammer nids batreps.


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BTW Chris was a great sport and seemed like a really good guy. Happy belated birthday Chris

Reecius you love the cheese far too much and I think it makes you weak. Your PoV is so distorted... you only want to play the cheese. You won this in spite of yourself .

Happy Birthday Chris and congratulations on your first you-tube appearance. I love seeing my fellow gamers enjoy their hobby. Your attitude to the game -win or lose- is something that many, many gamers could -and should- learn from.

All the Best and good luck tracking down that Storm Talon.




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@ Reecius: I've noticed that the various random elements and charts (like Chaos Rewards, Synapse etc) seem to be better received in the UK than they are in the United States. But then, I gather that a far smaller percentage of British gamers are into competitive, tournament play than our counterparts in the states.

Whether that's a cultural thing or just reflective of the fact we have fewer tournaments (and fewer dedicated gaming stores to run them locally) is something I've been wondering for a while.

 LeadLegion wrote:
Happy Birthday Chris and congratulations on your first you-tube appearance. I love seeing my fellow gamers enjoy their hobby. Your attitude to the game -win or lose- is something that many, many gamers could -and should- learn from.

All the Best and good luck tracking down that Storm Talon.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Reecius: I've noticed that the various random elements and charts (like Chaos Rewards, Synapse etc) seem to be better received in the UK than they are in the United States. But then, I gather that a far smaller percentage of British gamers are into competitive, tournament play than our counterparts in the states.

Whether that's a cultural thing or just reflective of the fact we have fewer tournaments (and fewer dedicated gaming stores to run them locally) is something I've been wondering for a while.

Most Americans are hyper competitive by nature. It's definitely a cultural difference. I know, I have family in several countries but am native to the US myself. It's good and bad.

@Dozer

I actually don't like the cheese, I like balance and fair play. I like good competition. This book provides none of those things. It isn't about cheese, or easy buttons, it is about having the opportunity to builds lots of interesting lists that can compete on the tabletop.


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@ImnewherewheresthebathroomMade

Yes, that was me. Sorry for all the typos, but I wrote it late at night and tired. But yeah, someone had to say it.

@Thread

Yeah, Chris is a happy gamer, no doubt! He brings a positive mental attitude.

@Red Corsair

I want, so badly, for Stealers to be good but they are so gakky. A T5 model with a 5+ save in an edition of ignores cover shooting means they are as good as dead. Overwatch guts them. They can't outflank anymore reliably as they appear, get intercepted, then get shot, then get overwatch to the face and it's curtains.

I have 50, painted! Haha, I want them to work but at 14pts per model they do not. Broodlords got nerfed, too! Doh! Haha, I was using min/max 5 man units with a buffed Broodlord as an assassin and skirmishing unit and that worked well, but he can't really do that anymore, either.

The only way I see them working is as either a min/maxed Horror slinger (which doesn't work on fearless units and poorly on high Ld or stubborn armies) or if you can somehow combo them with Harpies and/or Gargoyles to improve their odds and survive overwatch. They are flat out too expensive for what you get.


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@solosam

I hope so, but the core mechanics of the book are the issue, IMO.

I also hope you are right and that we get some better stuff in a supp. Or, we community FAQ this PoS and make it fun! haha


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@Moos

No worries, no hard feelings here. I just thought it was funny that more than twice we have been accused of that by a brit. Well, maybe accused is too harsh, we have had that brought up by a British person.

@Leadlegion

Yeah, I loathe the random crap. Maybe it is the more competitive nature? I don't know.

I like some randomness as it is fun and exciting, but when your entire army just randomly does stupid crap, the game becomes something you watch and not something you play.

I think it all depends how you use them, if for offense, you really need full 20 man broods. If we are talking about objective campers then there is nothing wrong with 5 T4 LD10 guys who ignore synapse and can in fact go to ground in area terrain while outside it for a 3+.

I know what coming next, "but what about ignores cover?" But seriously people need to stop judging the cost of things based on a broken mechanic. I didn't think for a minute that nids would hold up to Taudar and I don't think any other book will. They were a huge blunder.

Fair enough.

But then you can't say going to ground is a viable tactic either though, as then they are just taking a beating and not contributing anything, you know? How is that 70 points well spent?

20 is 280 points. Ouch. I used to run two broods of 20 in 5th and loved them, but now they get rocked so hard. They are not equal to a Space Marine for the points by any stretch of the imagination. They should be around 11-12 pts per model, max.

But hell, I will try them out, why not? I just know from using them in 6th so far they have been really gakky, and nothing has changed in the rules for them except the Broodlord got nerfed =(