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So I've skimmed the rules, seen the models and kinda think i should get into machine. So far the factions ill be after is cryx and cygnar (i think that's how you spell it). What i want to ask is can you make warbands of infantry/cav and no warjacks? Also will these kinds of warbands actually stand a chance against 'normal' warbands?

You can, but you'll certainly be missing out on a huge part of the game, and won't have the same breadth of tactical options available to you. I'm sure there's ways to make it work though.(especially with Cryx IMHO)

Edit: It's probably worth noting that you can field lots of lists with only one or two warjack(s), which are very competitive

You can't make a list with no jacks at all but Cryx tends to run with lots of infantry very frequently. Some casters run as few as two arc-node light jacks and no heavies.

Cygnar can run infantry lists as well but they use mercenary units as often as faction units so if you are looking forward to rows of trenchers and stormguard you might be let down.

Seeing as the caster provides bonus points for warjacks, you will always need at least one. That being said, just grab an Arcnode and have fun if you want.

I meant by the rules can i do it. I was thinking of running 2 jacks and infantry but wanted to have to option there to play with for friendly games. I think cryx will be my starting army but cygnar ilke the scheme and their infantry

Warmachine armies tend to only want to have 1-2 jacks. The only rule is you have to spend your warjack points for the caster on a warjack. usually this is just enough to buy one cheap jack or half of a better jack.

But since most warcaster only can really run one or two jacks then you are looking good. Both Cryx and Cygnar have access to a lot of fun infantry. Cygnar just got some vool new cavalry. Cryx is getting new heavy cavalry in April. It looks like it could be really nice, too.

TLDR: You are right on the money for both of these factions!

For tournaments you must spend your warjack/warbeast points. You also have to be within a minimum amount of points from the total. So if it's a 35 point game you have to have a 33 point list at least for example. I am not sure if that holds for fun games, i suppose anything goes there.

 Mordekiem wrote:
Warmachine armies tend to only want to have 1-2 jacks. The only rule is you have to spend your warjack points for the caster on a warjack. usually this is just enough to buy one cheap jack or half of a better jack.

But since most warcaster only can really run one or two jacks then you are looking good. Both Cryx and Cygnar have access to a lot of fun infantry. Cygnar just got some vool new cavalry. Cryx is getting new heavy cavalry in April. It looks like it could be really nice, too.

TLDR: You are right on the money for both of these factions!

Thanks for clarifying that. I was thinking that set up or using all jacks which appears not possible either. Whats TLDR? Sorry relatively new to forum speak on wargames forums. If cryx is getting heavy cav i might get a starter box of them this week then...

Thanks for all the replies

3rdGen wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:
Warmachine armies tend to only want to have 1-2 jacks. The only rule is you have to spend your warjack points for the caster on a warjack. usually this is just enough to buy one cheap jack or half of a better jack.

But since most warcaster only can really run one or two jacks then you are looking good. Both Cryx and Cygnar have access to a lot of fun infantry. Cygnar just got some vool new cavalry. Cryx is getting new heavy cavalry in April. It looks like it could be really nice, too.

TLDR: You are right on the money for both of these factions!

Thanks for clarifying that. I was thinking that set up or using all jacks which appears not possible either. Whats TLDR? Sorry relatively new to forum speak on wargames forums. If cryx is getting heavy cav i might get a starter box of them this week then...

Thanks for all the replies

TLDR is a common abbreviation for Too Long, Didn't Read. It is used either by a poster summarizing a long winded post, or as a slightly trollish response to a block of text by another poster.

Additionally, technically speaking Mordekiem is only half right. He is right in that you have to be within 2 points of the maximum size of your army, HOWEVER you don't need to spend all of your warjack points. There was an official ruling on it somewhere on the pp forums. To elaborate, in a 25 point game with pDenny as your warcaster, your army list's size is 30 points. For your list to be legal, you must include at least 28 points worth of models. Practically speaking, every warcaster has to buy at least one warjack, possibly two (the lowest number of jack points on a warcaster that I know of is 4), but in theory if a caster was released with 2 or fewer warjack points, you could legally run a 'jackless army.

Not much of a contribution but I believe Old Witch only has 3 jack points...but she comes with her own light warjack so that doesnt really count.

Out of curiosity, why do you want to run with no jacks?

3rdGen wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:
Warmachine armies tend to only want to have 1-2 jacks. The only rule is you have to spend your warjack points for the caster on a warjack. usually this is just enough to buy one cheap jack or half of a better jack.

But since most warcaster only can really run one or two jacks then you are looking good. Both Cryx and Cygnar have access to a lot of fun infantry. Cygnar just got some vool new cavalry. Cryx is getting new heavy cavalry in April. It looks like it could be really nice, too.

TLDR: You are right on the money for both of these factions!

Thanks for clarifying that. I was thinking that set up or using all jacks which appears not possible either. Whats TLDR? Sorry relatively new to forum speak on wargames forums. If cryx is getting heavy cav i might get a starter box of them this week then...

Thanks for all the replies

Oh, there are certain Casters and setups you can use with lots of Jacks (and even all Jacks) and have it work well, especially with Colossals out now. Generally over 25pts you'll want a mix, however, but under that all Jacks or all infantry except one light (to use up a caster's Jack Points) is a definite possibility. As for Cryx generally most of their casters like lots of infantry, and only Montenebra wants lots of heavy jacks (several cryxian casters like one heavy, generally deathjack, and one or two light Arc Node jacks however).

Khador could possibly run with no Jacks, seeing as we only generally take one, or two if our caster is 'Jack Heavy'.


Although it is easier for us seeing as nearly all of our casters are focus hogs, and we need the extra juice.

RegalPhantom wrote:
(the lowest number of jack points on a warcaster that I know of is 4)

There's a number of 3's. In Warmachine, Nemo3 and Old Witch both only have 3 and in Hordes it's Kaya2, Thagrosh2, and Bethayne. Makeda3 only has 2 Beast Points.

You can certainly get by with only 1 jack, but you will need at least that one jack. Its going to be mostly free so take it.

Both Cryx and Cygnar however like running multiple jacks. Although Cryx often gets by with only a couple Bonechickens, which are really just mobile Arc Nodes and not much else so they aren't doing what jacks normally do.

Cygnar however usually runs 2-3 jacks and often more. Most of their high pow ranged attacks are on their jacks.

I want to try it as Im a 40k player for 16 years and i like bodies on the table opposed to mass tanking. Also I've never seen a warmachine band without jacks so naturally i want to try it.

Well that´s because you have to spent your warjack points.
To be honest Khador and Retribution would fair just fine without Jacks. But why bother? You have to take one anyway so let´s take the good ones.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You can certainly get by with only 1 jack, but you will need at least that one jack. Its going to be mostly free so take it.

Both Cryx and Cygnar however like running multiple jacks. Although Cryx often gets by with only a couple Bonechickens, which are really just mobile Arc Nodes and not much else so they aren't doing what jacks normally do.

Cygnar however usually runs 2-3 jacks and often more. Most of their high pow ranged attacks are on their jacks.

My experience playing Cygnar and Cryx is that they are two factions than tend to like running no more than 1-2 jacks. There are a few warcasters who are an exception to this, but not many. Cygnar has some excellent jack marshalls, but you still don't want to spend too many points on warjacks. I run pDenny with two bone chickens and a heavy (usually nightmare or Deathjack) and most Cryx players will consider that "jack-Heavy" for Cryx.

Menoth is the faction to play if you want to run 2+ jacks with your caster. Pretty much all the casters are comfortable with multiple jacks due to the great non-caster support they have.

Pretty much any Warmachine army only wants a couple of jacks at most, other than a few specific casters. The reason is how focus works. The more you run the less effective they and the caster become. Also, buffs on infantry tend to be more efficient. Also infantry don't usually need to stay as close to the caster as the warjacks do. And some infantry works very well all on it's own. So having plenty of independent or semi independent infantry units can make flanking and taking objectives much easier.

Hordes is the opposite. You tend to want to run 3-4 beasts. I find it quite ironic that the names of the two games are not indicative of the ideal way to play them.

3rdGen wrote:
I want to try it as Im a 40k player for 16 years and i like bodies on the table opposed to mass tanking. Also I've never seen a warmachine band without jacks so naturally i want to try it.

It just doesnt make any sense. Taking a jack or no jack does not limit the amount of other models in your army. If you are playing a 25 point game, then you have 25 points to spend on whatever you want. Your warcaster(HQ) does not cost points at all and all warcasters give you a certain number of extra points that can only be spent on warjacks in their battlegroup. Its usually 5 or 6 depending on the caster. Some have 4 others have 7, it varies depending on how the caster plays. For instance, the Old Witch has the least with 3, but that is because she has a light warjack with her already.

The extra points can be spent only on warjacks in your caster's battlegroup and nothing else so by not taking one you are simply gimping your army. If you really want to, you can almost always take a warjack that is worth equal to or less than your warcaster's extra points so it does not use up points for infantry models.

KingKodo wrote:

3rdGen wrote:
I want to try it as Im a 40k player for 16 years and i like bodies on the table opposed to mass tanking. Also I've never seen a warmachine band without jacks so naturally i want to try it.

It just doesnt make any sense. Taking a jack or no jack does not limit the amount of other models in your army. If you are playing a 25 point game, then you have 25 points to spend on whatever you want. Your warcaster(HQ) does not cost points at all and all warcasters give you a certain number of extra points that can only be spent on warjacks in their battlegroup. Its usually 5 or 6 depending on the caster. Some have 4 others have 7, it varies depending on how the caster plays. For instance, the Old Witch has the least with 3, but that is because she has a light warjack with her already.

The extra points can be spent only on warjacks in your caster's battlegroup and nothing else so by not taking one you are simply gimping your army. If you really want to, you can almost always take a warjack that is worth equal to or less than your warcaster's extra points so it does not use up points for infantry models.

Ahhh ok. That makes more sense. I haven't even played a game yet just looked through some stuff and played with battle scribe to make a warband based on budgets of $100-300 and came up with a few lists but most include jacks. I want to eventually play some local tourneys but one step at a time

3rdGen wrote:
I want to try it as Im a 40k player for 16 years and i like bodies on the table opposed to mass tanking. Also I've never seen a warmachine band without jacks so naturally i want to try it.

Taking a jack won't really affect taking infantry. Remember though, this is not 40k. A warmachine 'horde' of infantry is twenty to thirty guys - that's one ork mob!

Cain merc lists run 1 jack old rowdy and that is it . everything else is infantry . Cain is not a jack friendly caster he wants all the focus for himself .

I have seen eAsphyxious lists that run an ambulatory arc node as the only jack, and about 100000 bane thralls. Not a friendly list by any stretch, but almost jack free.

The technical answer to the OPs question is that the basic rules do not require Warjacks. Tournament rules require a player to spend most of their points, which means spending the warjack points that come with your caster, so for any sort of tournament, you need a jack.

Practially speaking, you basically get a free jack with every warcaster, and turning it down doesn't seem to get you much. Also, I know you're going for theme, but there are both light and heavy jacks. Light jacks are on medium bases, and many are smaller than large infantry models, most notably the cryx lights. Jacks can also carry an arc node, which allows the warcaster to cast spells through it, dramatically increasing the range of spells.

So, if you wanted to build a cryx army around all infantry and two deathripper lights, that wouldn't be a bad list, and would use the warjack points. Likewise, a cyngar list with only a lancer would have an arc node that's reasoanbly durable. Cygnar can also look at the Hunter, which plays very differently then most jacks, as it's a sneaky sniper type.

 Wehrkind wrote:
I have seen eAsphyxious lists that run an ambulatory arc node as the only jack, and about 100000 bane thralls. Not a friendly list by any stretch, but almost jack free.

Adding a bit to this, sometimes the Aspyxious player kills said warjack himself so it provides a comfy place of cover for him for the rest of the game.

And stuff.