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It took me a while to settle on a chapter master over a captain, but the additional wound, attack and orbital bombardment swayed me in the end. Now I'm curious as to wether I have kitted him out correctly.....

He will be on a bike, as my list is pure bike....so I have gone for a fast moving beat stick, something my list is lacking. Currently he is armed with a thunder hammer and the shield eternal on a bike with artificer armour. That's 250 Pts, but I was wondering, does anybody run any other successful combinations? I feel I'm losing out on his initiative and ballistic skill with this load out?

This is the same set up I'm looking at for my own Captain / Chapter Master, and I think its great

His BS can be used with the twin linked boltgun on his bike to add to his squad's overall firepower as they power into their target

However, as a beat stick, you really don't want to waste to much of his time shooting, you want him stuck in, or serving as a tank for a large squad of bikes

Also, with the Shield Eternal (especially if you run IH) his initiative won't be a problem, and that Thunder hammer will allow him to wreck face against damn near anything he runs into, so I'd say the initiative loss is worth it

Burning blade is expensive but great. Makes use of his imitative and is better than the thunder hammer at killing.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Burning blade is expensive but great. Makes use of his imitative and is better than the thunder hammer at killing.

How can the blade be as good? The hammer is Str 8, meaning it instant deaths T4 models, the blade is Str 7 and can quite easily take a wound from me!

Because it has a extra attack. It's cc weapon so he gets an extra attack from having a pistol. So +1 s or +1attack


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So maybe not better bit close for sure

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Because it has a extra attack. It's cc weapon so he gets an extra attack from having a pistol. So +1 s or +1attack


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So maybe not better bit close for sure

Since the Chapter Master is using the Shield Eternal, he's already switched his pistol out for the Shield.

Thunder Hammer is superior, imo, because it's cheaper, concussive (meaning MCs strike at I1 next turn, allowing you to always get a chance to hit them, even if they are going to win) and has the extra pip if strength. The Initiative lost is meaningless on a character with 4 wounds and Eternal Warrior.

Well I don't use shield eternal, not much s10 in my meta but that varies.

If you arent using shield eternal, go with the Burning blade gravity pistol build.


5 attacks at ws6, str7, init.5 that follow your pistol shot which consuss's the enemy into init. 1 so that when you get into melee you blind your opponent with the burning blade.

Even abbadon cries like a pansy when he's swinging at WS1, init. 1.



Its a surgical knife though and he cant tank near as well.

That does sound a nice combi! But I do think the shield hammer combo is better all round! I think he's more survivable too....

Which is better as far as Thunder Hammer vs. Burning Blade goes depends on the situation I think. The Burning Blade is better when fighting heavy infantry (MEQ squads, TEQ squads, Bikers, etc.) and already-injured monsters (minus Wraith-anythings). The Thunder Hammer, on the other hand, is better against full-strength Monsters and vehicles (though the usual, non-walker rear AV10 isn't much harder to crack with the Blade). There's also the fact that the Hammer is 25pts cheaper than the blade and your Chapter Master won't accidentally drop it on his foot.

With that said I think there are a few factors working into the Blade's favour as the better general-use weapon:

1) When I think 'pure bike army' I think grav guns. I realise this is a big assumption on my part, but I suspect you have Grav Guns galore in the list. This means that when it's time to charge a monster it's probably already concussed and horrifically mangled, so you don't usually need the extra punch of the hammer. Non-Daemon monsters also seem to have generally low-ish initiative, too. Most Tyranid beasties only have I2, with Trygons at I4 and Tyrants at I5; I think the Riptide is I2 or I3 (although he's not scary in CC anyways), Wraith constructs are I2 or something, and Dreadknights are I4. Even if they're not concussed the Chapter Master can strike these guys (other than the Tyrant, that is) before they get a chance to hurt him. If you keep the Chapter Master with a unit when you charge this becomes even more important because a monster can easily paste your bikers in CC in the time it takes for the Thunder Hammer to finish it.

2) A Thunder Hammer is wasted on anything below T6 with W1 (And it's still wasted on most T5, multi-wound models). Against Sisters, Marines, Guardsmen, Terminators, other Bikers, Kabalites, Gaunts, Boyz, etc. etc. the Burning Blade is just as damaging (and just as much overkill in some cases) as the Thunder Hammer, only it gets to strike before any of the enemies strike back. There will be games where the Chapter Master will have bigger fish to fry, but then there will also be times when you want to ram him into a problematic blob of marines and scythe them down--and the Burning Blade does that better

3) The Chapter Master won't hurt himself with the Blade very often. There's a 16.66% chance of the Blade hitting him and a 33% chance of it wounding him (S4 vs. T5). He has the shield so he's got a 66.66% chance of saving the wound with his 3++. There will be times where he suffers the wound, but it should happen very rarely.

4) The Blade has Blind, which I only just now remembered. That's helpful.

My ideal loadout is something along the lines of:

Chapter Master
Bike
Burning Blade
Shield Eternal
Melta Bombs
Auspex

He clocks in at about 265pts and makes for a good beatstick. Melta Bombs are for those pesky Land Raiders/Monoliths and the Auspex is there to make life miserable for guys hiding from the Grav Guns in cover.

Khaine - Hes awsome as he is the way you have listed it. That's my 1st preference. If you do for some reason want to make him better give him digi weapons and make him IH.

My list has only 2 squads of bikers with grav guns, the rest is Ravenwing based. - here's a link, let me know your thoughts on the best load out now...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/573688.page


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Iron hands? I want to, but I like the skilled rider buffs too much to drop the white scars tactics...

Yeh that would be the down side. Especially if the rest of the list is just bikes.

Personally use the burning blade on a bike as T5 makes it harder to ID anyway and St7 ap 2 at initiative is very nice.

I wonder if theres a way to chuck furious charge on him.

Iron Hands, Clan Rauken: CM with Gorgon chain, TH/LC, bike, Artificier armor in a command squad. He kills everything you want with the same 2+/3++/EW, but 4+ FNP and an extra attack, plus can chop up marines at initiative if needed. Master craft weapons for giggles.

Desubot - Against tau or anyone allied with tau - have an inquisitor with the tome of vethric in the squad... although you lose ALL your mobility... maybe attach him to the squad right before the charge. Thats all I can think of off the top of my head.

I like the shield eternal because ID and ST 10 just happen.

It may be strange, but I usually give my HQ Teeth of Terra. It's cheaper than the burning blade and gives you rampage. Since it's a specialist weapon you don't lose an attack for having a shield instead of a pistol - you would't get this attack anyway. Instead you have D3 attacks making it better against everything that is not 2+ or very high T. You have grav-guns to deal with that anyway, so it's not a big downside.

 Desubot wrote:
Personally use the burning blade on a bike as T5 makes it harder to ID anyway and St7 ap 2 at initiative is very nice.

I wonder if theres a way to chuck furious charge on him.

Kor'sarro Khan.

I like the Artificer/TH/Shield Eternal combo you're running now. The S8 is relevant, the concussive makes up for the low initiative (as does the 2+/3++, T5 & Eternal Warrior) and Adamantium Will is also valuable.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I like the Artificer/TH/Shield Eternal combo you're running now. The S8 is relevant, the concussive makes up for the low initiative (as does the 2+/3++, T5 & Eternal Warrior) and Adamantium Will is also valuable.

Yeah, there's some nice combos rearing their head. But I'm still not sold on anything different just yet...

Crazyterran wrote:

Since the Chapter Master is using the Shield Eternal, he's already switched his pistol out for the Shield.

I think it's kind of silly it's the only relic option in any codex so far that is normally a piece of wargear that someone can simply take but this one requires you to still replace a weapon still anyway.

I actually kind of lean Teeth of Terra in the Space Marines relics list. It's brilliant for it's point price and more than capable of carving swathes through huge chunks of infantry. I personally try to keep my Warlord out of close combats where there's a good chance I give up Slay The Warlord, too.

Yeah. Though luckily he's not my warlord, so I'm not too concerned! Haha!

Clan raukann CM with AA, Bike, powermaul, Axe of Medusa, Gorgans chain.
T5 4W EW 5+fnp 5+IWND 2+/3++.
6 attacks on the charge, choosing between st6 ap4 at initiative or st6 ap2 unwieldy master crafted any 6 to hit becomes st8. Can pick any mix.
255pts.

...that is nice....not sure about the maul though....

 SRSFACE wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

Since the Chapter Master is using the Shield Eternal, he's already switched his pistol out for the Shield.

I think it's kind of silly it's the only relic option in any codex so far that is normally a piece of wargear that someone can simply take but this one requires you to still replace a weapon still anyway.

Normal Storm Shields also require you to give up a weapon.

+1 Attacks are moot with a storm shield - the entry for a storm shield says you can't claim the +1 for two weapons anyway.

If you're grabbing BB, take a pistol and someone else to tank for the squad.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
+1 Attacks are moot with a storm shield - the entry for a storm shield says you can't claim the +1 for two weapons anyway.

If you're grabbing BB, take a pistol and someone else to tank for the squad.

If you are ever going down the "let someone else tank all the shots" route for a non-disposable HQ or your warlord, make sure you have some nearby characters to tank for him in challenges too otherwise he'll either have to sit out or get punked on in challenges.