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My buddy said he saw that CotHO was listed as having a hex spell type. Its my understanding that 7th ed spells don't have a type except magic missiles. I can't really find anything that GW has published that indicates an actual type for that spell. Anyone know something I don't or is this just an error on part of the army builder?

All spells from previous editions will detail in their descriptions how they work, but I don't remember a spell called curse of the horned one.

You may know it as The Dreaded 13th. 4d6 casualties. Only affects infantry.

Army builder or any other of those softwares are not reliable at all and should never be fully trusted

Dreaded 13th has no spell type, in fact, not a single Skaven spell has any type, even though some could get a type sticked on them

The only restriction with Dreaded 13th is that it has to target a unit, so cannot be used against an enemy unit in CC unless it's only in CC agaisnt Slaves, as usual

TanKoL wrote:
Army builder or any other of those softwares are not reliable at all and should never be fully trusted

Dreaded 13th has no spell type, in fact, not a single Skaven spell has any type, even though some could get a type sticked on them

The only restriction with Dreaded 13th is that it has to target a unit, so cannot be used against an enemy unit in CC unless it's only in CC agaisnt Slaves, as usual

For starters, 'magic missile' existed as a spell type in previous editions and can be found in older Lore's; Warp Lightning would be a great example.

Secondly, you can only cast a (non-hex/augment) spell into combat if the spell specifically says so. I believe the rule about shooting at Slaves only applies to shooting, and so the Dreaded 13th cannot be cast into a combat with them.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

TanKoL wrote:
Army builder or any other of those softwares are not reliable at all and should never be fully trusted

Dreaded 13th has no spell type, in fact, not a single Skaven spell has any type, even though some could get a type sticked on them

The only restriction with Dreaded 13th is that it has to target a unit, so cannot be used against an enemy unit in CC unless it's only in CC agaisnt Slaves, as usual

For starters, 'magic missile' existed as a spell type in previous editions and can be found in older Lore's; Warp Lightning would be a great example.

Secondly, you can only cast a (non-hex/augment) spell into combat if the spell specifically says so. I believe the rule about shooting at Slaves only applies to shooting, and so the Dreaded 13th cannot be cast into a combat with them.

Re-read the section on targeting restrictions and non typed spells in the BRB. You most certainly can cast Dreaded 13th into combat as the spell description itself doesn't say you can't. (This assumes I am remembering correctly it doesn't haVe a type and doesn't say unengaged in the description.)

Search for threads on this topic as there are many of them.

I'm sorry but you're wrong in the way you associate the BRB rules to the way the Skaven spells work
you cannot target a unit that is engaged in CC except if there's only Slaves on the Skaven side, it's true
Also expendable doesn't specify shooting attacks but ranged attacks, which is a vague reference to anything that ain't CC (the Skaven book is horribly written, I agree with that)
Also, lots of Skaven spells can be cast into combat as they don't target a unit, Scorch or Crack's Call for instance, same as you can shoot Flame-Throwers into CC as it's not forbidden (even without Slaves) or a Doomrocket as you don't target anything (on the other hand, the Brass Orb states that it's used as a stone-thrower, so cannot be shot into a non-slave CC).
You simply target "a point on the battlefield" or "give a direction and then roll for range" (like Vortexes), exactly like a cannon, except that a cannon has a specific rule saying it cannot be shot in any way that would hit your own units / a melee (except if it's Slaves, as usual)

Plague for instance is a specific case where it can be cast into any melee because it's specifically written, the other spells simply don't have type and don't have the limitations

There is the rub, "Ranged Attack" is never defined. By your definition, you can't cast BRB hexes on those units either as it is not a CC attack and the Skaven book is more specific than the BRB. The BRB shays you can cast hexes into a combat, the Skaven rule says you can't except combats with only Slaves (much more specific). The way that is written is an exception and not meant to be a replacement rule, IMO, but poorly written rules are poorly written.

The FAQ, while far from definitive specifically mentions shooting at the unit, not casting spells.

With all of this said, I don't mind the idea of not casting 13th into combat. GW should have just FAQ'd a type onto all of the spells that could take one. It would have been much cleaner to make the 13th a Direct Damage and call it a day, but they chose not to :(

With the brass orb. I'd disagree. Its not a magic weapon its an enchanted item that's used in the shooting phase and it works out like a stone thrower. You can't stand and shoot with it but you should be able to march and throw it, throw it into CC.

I can't add anything to this that hasn't been said. For craps and giggles, I called the GW hotline a couple of times since posting this. They're pretty mixed up about it. 1 yes 1 no.

They still have a hotline?
Thought they decided to stop embarrassing themselves.

hahaha. no they're keeping it up!

 HoverBoy wrote:
They still have a hotline?
Thought they decided to stop embarrassing themselves.

They have an email for questions as well. It is about what you would expect from what I understand

The brass orb "works like a stone thrower", you said it yourself
a stone thrower cannot be shot in a way that would hit your own unit or into a CC.
That's pretty clear cut to me

Stone throwers can scatter into a combat or onto a friendly unit with no issues rules wise. Cannons are the ones you may not shoot and it have any chance of hitting a friendly unit or a unit in CC. (Just a clarification.)

yeah, should have clarified that, they can scatter, but the initial template cannot cover a CC / friendly unit

to be specific, it says "scatters like a stone thrower..." Since its an Enchanted item, its not shooting and shouldn't have the limitations of those rules. I looked back because there was errata but it only says "place the center of the template anywhere within 8" and within line of sight" That changes it a bit. If it were a magic weapon, I'd agree 100% but its an enchanted item.

Matt Ratsinburger wrote:
With the brass orb. I'd disagree. Its not a magic weapon its an enchanted item that's used in the shooting phase and it works out like a stone thrower. You can't stand and shoot with it but you should be able to march and throw it, throw it into CC.

I can't add anything to this that hasn't been said. For craps and giggles, I called the GW hotline a couple of times since posting this. They're pretty mixed up about it. 1 yes 1 no.

Are you saying it's not a shooting attack?
Do you think you can use it when you are fleeing?
Do you think you can use it in additional to firing another weapon?

It's an odd stance that since it's an enchanted item, that it doesn't have to follow the normal rules.
The Dark Elf black dragon egg is an enchanted item that gives a breathe attack. Are you saying that since it's also an enchanted item, that a Master on Pegasus could flying 20" and drop the temple into combat?

IMO, it's got a ranged weapon style profile (very much like death globes) and as such, it should be treated as a ranged weapon.

-Matt

Ok. I'm convinced I'm wrong. I'm just hung up on the difference in item types. Orb and globe operate the same way but why would GW (granted, GW's track record for consistency is subpar) make them different item types if they wanted them to be played the same way? Even if it is an inconsistency, its a bad one.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Matt Ratsinburger wrote:
With the brass orb. I'd disagree. Its not a magic weapon its an enchanted item that's used in the shooting phase and it works out like a stone thrower. You can't stand and shoot with it but you should be able to march and throw it, throw it into CC.

I can't add anything to this that hasn't been said. For craps and giggles, I called the GW hotline a couple of times since posting this. They're pretty mixed up about it. 1 yes 1 no.

Are you saying it's not a shooting attack?
Do you think you can use it when you are fleeing?
Do you think you can use it in additional to firing another weapon?

It's an odd stance that since it's an enchanted item, that it doesn't have to follow the normal rules.
The Dark Elf black dragon egg is an enchanted item that gives a breathe attack. Are you saying that since it's also an enchanted item, that a Master on Pegasus could flying 20" and drop the temple into combat?

IMO, it's got a ranged weapon style profile (very much like death globes) and as such, it should be treated as a ranged weapon.

-Matt

Just a thing about the breath weapon on pegasus, you may use one after marching . You can't shoot in combat though