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The Fog of War
All units have a detection radius. By default this is 24" from any model in the unit. Shooting attacks can only be made on enemy units that are detected. An enemy unit is detected if it has a model within the detection range of at least one unit in the same detachment as the shooting unit. The detection radius of a unit cannot be reduced below 6".

Revealing Your Position
Models that have performed a shooting attack in the previous turn can detected by an additional 12".

Silenced Weapons
Weapons with the Silenced special rule ignore the Revealing Your Position rule.

Night Fighting
Instead of the normal rules for night fighting, detection radii are reduced by half. The Night Vision USR ignores this. Searchlights give the unit the Spotter special rule (see below) while Night Fighting is in effect.

Acute Senses USR
Add 3" to the detection radius of a unit containing a model with this special rule. A detection radius modified by this special rule cannot be reduced below 9".

Spotter
Certain units excel at detecting enemies. A unit containing a model with this special rule add an extra 12" to its detection radius. Models with the Scout USR or carrying weapons with the Sniper or Target Acquired special rules also have the Spotter special rule.

Bulky
Larger enemies are easier to detect that smaller ones. Units containing models with the Bulky special rule can be detected by an additional 3", Very Bulky models by 6", and Extremely Bulky models by 9".

Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures
Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures have special equipment or advanced senses that can detect enemies better than most other units. Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures add 6" to their detection radii. In addition Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures count as Very Bulky for detection purposes.

Stealth USR
Some enemies are very skilled at remaining undetected. Units attempting to detect a unit containing a model with the Stealth USR treat their detection radius as reduced by 9". This reduction stacks with Shrouded.

Shrouded USR
Units attempting to detect a unit containing a model with the Shrouded USR treat their detection radius as reduced by 6". This reduction stacks with Stealth.

Blind USR
Units affected from the Blind USR use their minimum detection radius.

Pinning
Units that are pinned, or that have gone to ground halve their detection radius.

Allies
Allied units are slow to detect enemy units for their allies, whether this is because of distrust or just having a separate chain of command. Allied units detect enemy units at a penalty for units in other detatchments. Battle Brothers suffer a 6" reduced detection radius for their allies. Allies of Convenience and Desperate Allies suffer a 12" reduced detection radius for their allies. For detection purposes, a unit of mixed detachments counts as being a part of every detachment represented in that unit, use the smallest penalty that applies.

Notes
Long range shooting dominates this edition and requires almost no thought to use. These changes would force gunline armies to bring units/equipment that can spot for the rest of the army or to move up, while giving their opponents a chance to avoid enemy big guns strategically. This would make infiltrators incredibly important to both sides. This also gives a buff to stealthy units, if used intelligently. Also Acute Senses needed something to be more than just Outflanking+.

Stealth + Shrouded units could safely end their move 15" away from most units, assuming they don't fire, without being detected. Any closer and any enemy infantry unit could move up and reveal the Stealth + Shrouded unit to the whole enemy army. 15" gives most units enough room to retreat without being charged by the Stealth + Shrouded unit (in most cases). A Stealth + Shrouded unit would have a small window to avoid overwatch, if the opponent does nothing to avoid it, requiring a 10 on the charge roll though.

The largest detection radius a unit could have, being a Spotter MC/Vehicle with Acute Senses, is 45". So even a lascannon would need another unit's support to detect an enemy outside that range (unless of course the lascannon moves).

I definitely like this direction a lot better than something like night-fighting, and it also helps focus the game in on that 24" radius rather than 2 sides of the board slugging it out.

I would suggest making it so that units can "see" an additional 12" beyond their detection radius, but must make snapshots at any units within that range. Not being able to fire at them at all is likely too strong of a penalty.

Needing "Spotting" units to fire accurately at range is brilliant, and makes a lot of somewhat lackluster units more powerful. Infiltrating scout marines anyone?

My only concern is keeping track of all this. It's a significant departure from current rules, and things like detection counters will likely be necessary.

 Tarrasq wrote:


Bulky
Larger enemies are easier to detect that smaller ones. Units containing models with the Bulky special rule can be detected by an additional 3", Very Bulky models by 6", and Extremely Bulky models by 9".

Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures
Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures have special equipment or advanced senses that can detect enemies better than most other units. Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures add 6" to their detection radii. In addition Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures count as Very Bulky for detection purposes.


Notes
Long range shooting dominates this edition and requires almost no thought to use. These changes would force gunline armies to bring units/equipment that can spot for the rest of the army or to move up, while giving their opponents a chance to avoid enemy big guns strategically. This would make infiltrators incredibly important to both sides. This also gives a buff to stealthy units, if used intelligently. Also Acute Senses needed something to be more than just Outflanking+.

Like the mentality behind the rules.
There's something a bit off about a land raider being harder to detect than a bike though. :p
Any plans to playtest? By all means please post a link here if you make a batrep involving this system.

One thing thats slightly unclear to me when I read these rules... do units just need to be 'detected' once and then you can shoot them forever? Or is it a persistent state, to shoot at that unit it must be being detected right now by some other unit of yours?

I'd assume the latter, but just making sure

This is an interesting concept in itself and I've used something similar in a space naval game at one point, but I see two problems:

1) The, IMHO, false assumption that gunline armies are a major issue in this edition.

2) The range values as they stand now make the system completely irrelevant.

Any army can afford to sacrifice a 50 pt unit as a forward spotter each turn, and most of them don't even need to. Your average spotting range is more than the gap between deployment zones. And the most problematic ranged units have bonuses to increase it further, or even move back out of range after firing, which would make Fog of War actually add to the problem instead of reducing it.

Some changes i've come up with as i've mulled over the system.

Make a clear distinction between "Detected" and "Revealed", probably using some sort of counter. Enemy units within 12" and in LOS of a friendly unit count as "Revealed", meaning any of your units can fire at that enemy unit at full BS. Enemy units within 24" and in LOS of a friendly unit count as "Detected", meaning any of your units may fire at them with a reduced BS. The "Revealed" status condition overrides the "Detected" status condition.

Additionally, if an enemy unit is within the Detection Range (within 24") of at least 2 of your units and is in LOS to both, they count as "Revealed". Units with the Stealth special rule must be within Detection Range of at least 3 enemy units to receive the "Revealed" Status Condition. Unit's that have fired in the previous shooting phase count as being in the Detection Range of one enemy unit (this way if you fire the enemy only needs one unit nearby and in LOS to give that unit the "Revealed" Status Condition).

This way the penalties are actually relevant to most weapons, and further enforces the need for units to work together to achieve maximum effect. This can also help melee only units, as they can get closer without having to face such a withering amount of firepower, as the enemy needs a lot of units to Reveal them. With some revision of special rules, Lictors might actually be powerful!

niv-mizzet wrote:
Like the mentality behind the rules.
There's something a bit off about a land raider being harder to detect than a bike though. :p

Not sure what you mean here as I don't see any bikes with the extremely bulky rule.

Dakkamite wrote:One thing thats slightly unclear to me when I read these rules... do units just need to be 'detected' once and then you can shoot them forever? Or is it a persistent state, to shoot at that unit it must be being detected right now by some other unit of yours?

I'd assume the latter, but just making sure

Yes the latter, as it should be an active process. I'm playing off the "seeking cover" abstraction from the rulebook. Basically the idea is that while having the commander point of view (the tabletop) you have a rough idea of where the enemy units are, but your troops don't. The enemies aren't just sitting out in the open, but are actively hiding.

I can see where my language could be confusing there. Nice catch. I'll edit the OP to reflect this.

lord_blackfang wrote:
Any army can afford to sacrifice a 50 pt unit as a forward spotter each turn, and most of them don't even need to. Your average spotting range is more than the gap between deployment zones. And the most problematic ranged units have bonuses to increase it further, or even move back out of range after firing, which would make Fog of War actually add to the problem instead of reducing it.

1) The average spotting range is 24". If your unit can see into the enemy deployment zone from yours with 24" your unit is deployed illegally. No man's land is 24" in every deployment. Also, even the longest detection radius isn't going to reveal large portions of the board without fighting for a central position.

2)I assume you're refering to riptides as the problematic unit? Yes skipping in and out of the fog is a perk for some units, if your opponent just lets you. But a riptide needs to roll boxcars (unless you're wasting nova charge) to completely clear the extra detection range for revealing its position by firing. If it needs any less it didn't need to jump back. Also MC/Vehicles may get a bonus to detection they also suffer an equivalent penalty to remaining undetected.

3)I never said gunlines were a major issue in this edition, just that they make for tactically lazy play. A 50 pt sacrifical unit for spotting is 50 pts you aren't spending on big guns, so if you want to risk your long range game on easily destroyed units feel free. If that 50 pt unit proves hard to kill due to good decision making then you are making good use of your noodle, congrats.

Also this isn't supposed to be super punishing. With good strategy you should be able to provide detection for your army easily. You opponent just has the ability to deny it to you now, even on terrain light boards.