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So, a Hive Tyrant can "join a unit of TG exactly as if it were an IC" (C:T p46)

(BRB p39) Sub-section "Joining and Leaving a Unit" defines joining and leaving. Rules for both, including deploying with, are in the same section. Joining and leaving do not appear to be two clearly separable rules IMHO.

Can anyone make a solid argument why I couldn't take a Flyrant and Tyrant Guard, start the unit on the board and on a subsequent turn fly away, leaving the Tyrant Guard? Technically the Flying part is irrelevant, but that is the tactic that has me interested.

TIA

I rule it as yes.

He can join the unit as if he were an independent character, so he can leave the unit as if he were an independent character.

While this is technically a formal logical fallacy, I'm going to go with the idea that he's an independent character for the purposes of tyrant guard, but is not an independent character for something else, like carnifexes, and therefore can leave the unit like you would any other independent character.

It may join a unit of Tyrant Guard like an IC, it has no permission to leave them like an IC.

It's not an Independent Character, has no permission to use any of the rules for Independent Characters.
The only exception being joining units.
Not joining AND leaving units.

I want fat little wings like a cherub to go on my Tyrant Guard.

RAW i agree with Grendel083 leaving the unit isnt permitted.

nevertheless i would allow it in a game. It looks like a typical rules oversight to me. Of course it could also be intended but i dont think so.

 Mywik wrote:
RAW i agree with Grendel083 leaving the unit isnt permitted.

nevertheless i would allow it in a game. It looks like a typical rules oversight to me. Of course it could also be intended but i dont think so.

Bear in mind that in the previous book they couldn't leave the unit either, so it might be intended

 punchdub wrote:
So, a Hive Tyrant can "join a unit of TG exactly as if it were an IC" (C:T p46)

(BRB p39) Sub-section "Joining and Leaving a Unit" defines joining and leaving. Rules for both, including deploying with, are in the same section. Joining and leaving do not appear to be two clearly separable rules IMHO.

Can anyone make a solid argument why I couldn't take a Flyrant and Tyrant Guard, start the unit on the board and on a subsequent turn fly away, leaving the Tyrant Guard? Technically the Flying part is irrelevant, but that is the tactic that has me interested.

TIA

No, it doesn't work.
But why do you want them joined for a single turn anyway?

rigeld2 wrote:
But why do you want them joined for a single turn anyway?

Deployment together and some cover for the Flyrant?

The Flyrant can easily get cover T1... and anything that will kill it with shooting won't be slowed down too much by 4 more wounds.

Maybe it's just me that doesn't see the value.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

 Mywik wrote:
RAW i agree with Grendel083 leaving the unit isnt permitted.

nevertheless i would allow it in a game. It looks like a typical rules oversight to me. Of course it could also be intended but i dont think so.

Bear in mind that in the previous book they couldn't leave the unit either, so it might be intended

Im aware of that. Still im inclined to think that it wouldve been so easy to clarify they cant leave again. The lack of a simple "and cant leave the unit for the rest of the game" lets me think its not intended.

They should have given the guard a wing option. But our codex was more copy paste then thought process.

I would generally check how GW ruled this back in 5th edition, because its worded the same way. Mentions joining, not leaving. Makes sense to me that it technically can't leave the unit, although personally i'd just like the option to make the Tyrant Guard winged too

So rules say it can join, but it can't leave, right?

Do the rules say anything about the Flyrant having to join the squad upon deployment? I may be missing something, but I don't think there is. That way, you could simply deploy them separately and, provided you don't join them, they could act separately the whole game.

Yes, you can deploy and run them separately...

It doesn't make sense from a fluff or value standpoint though.

Aw, that sucks. I had thought about putting a flyrant with one just for turn 1 protection and as a fun way to spend 50 points in a list. Bummer!

If they FAQ it I would still like to try that trick out at some point.

rigeld2 wrote:
Yes, you can deploy and run them separately...

It doesn't make sense from a fluff or value standpoint though.

value stand point : T6 Prime. I used to run them this way to make the Warlord much hard to kill and easier to hide. Also TG are really good in assault against non-CC specialists, that T6 and 3+ save are a nice combo.

You can join a Prime to TG all day long - the Tyrant doesn't have to start with them.

rigeld2 wrote:
You can join a Prime to TG all day long - the Tyrant doesn't have to start with them.

Oh yeah, I was just pointing that out as value for running them with out the Tyrant attached, say in the case of the Flyrant.

barnowl wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Yes, you can deploy and run them separately...

It doesn't make sense from a fluff or value standpoint though.

value stand point : T6 Prime. I used to run them this way to make the Warlord much hard to kill and easier to hide. Also TG are really good in assault against non-CC specialists, that T6 and 3+ save are a nice combo.

I'm with Rigeld you want to spend 50 points a model for combat get Lictors they're better at it. Or get Zoanthropes as a throw away 50 points because more Synapse is always useful. You want a Prime in a T6 unit join him to Carnifexes where he'll actually be safe unlike with a TG or two.

But something no one seems to consider is rather than starting the Flyrant with them is starting them separate and then when the Flyrant is down to its last wound join him to them to keep him around longer and deny StW. This issue being that these days Flyrant tend to die in single shooting phases...

 FlingitNow wrote:

barnowl wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Yes, you can deploy and run them separately...

It doesn't make sense from a fluff or value standpoint though.

value stand point : T6 Prime. I used to run them this way to make the Warlord much hard to kill and easier to hide. Also TG are really good in assault against non-CC specialists, that T6 and 3+ save are a nice combo.

I'm with Rigeld you want to spend 50 points a model for combat get Lictors they're better at it. Or get Zoanthropes as a throw away 50 points because more Synapse is always useful. You want a Prime in a T6 unit join him to Carnifexes where he'll actually be safe unlike with a TG or two.

But something no one seems to consider is rather than starting the Flyrant with them is starting them separate and then when the Flyrant is down to its last wound join him to them to keep him around longer and deny StW. This issue being that these days Flyrant tend to die in single shooting phases...

Well, I find people shot the Carnie combo but ignore the TG+Prime, which has saved my Warlord in every Tournie I have played except against the Venom Spam on planet boweling ball. As to your second point, I always thought it had to happen at deployment. Just rechecked the rule, and you right it can be done at anytime. My Flyrant thanks you

 punchdub wrote:
So, a Hive Tyrant can "join a unit of TG exactly as if it were an IC" (C:T p46)

(BRB p39) Sub-section "Joining and Leaving a Unit" defines joining and leaving. Rules for both, including deploying with, are in the same section. Joining and leaving do not appear to be two clearly separable rules IMHO.

Can anyone make a solid argument why I couldn't take a Flyrant and Tyrant Guard, start the unit on the board and on a subsequent turn fly away, leaving the Tyrant Guard? Technically the Flying part is irrelevant, but that is the tactic that has me interested.

TIA

hi i have playd nids since thier spawning in space hulk days and this questions has hit home for many editions the ruling is simply overlookd/ missunderstood poor wording but you can take a unit of tyrent gaurd for each hive tyrent you have you may chose to attach the tyrent gaurd to the hive tyrent at the start of the game or at any point in the game you however MUST not leave the tyrent gaurd after your hive tyrent joins a unit of gaurd he is stuck with them until ither the gaurd die or the tyrent dies if the gaurd die however he may join another unit of gaurd if one was avalable to join ie gaurd with no tyrent due to thier tyrent not joining them at the start of the game etc. after all the hive tyrent is not an IC and never has bean. ruling new 7th ed codex a unit of tyrent gaurd may be purchased for each hive tyrent in your list you hive tyrent may chose to join this unit at any point as if acting like an independent chacter for the purose of joining the unit. note acting like so to put it blunt a flyrent can purchase a unit of gaurd but shold NEVER join them as he wont be able to use his wings and fly away from them but this is adresd in livathen udate. thier is now a formation that alows a wingd tyrent to join 2 units of 10-30 gargoyls useing the gargaolys as auto pass look out sirs the unit as a whole is clasd as a single unit for shooting combat and wound alocation so the tyrent cant be sniped. the downfall is the tyrent can only ever glide/(hover) and must be close combat designd. you may still field a unit of tyrent gaurd but they act as an idivdual unit that does not take up an FOC slot. hope this helps a tad. in the end game tyrent gaurds are awsome if used as intended for walking tyrents combat or shoting and are a formidable no brainer for flyrents who wish to be daka flyrents or the formation gargoyle flyrent takeing the gaurd as a stand alone non FOC useing unit they can be used as baby fex's and provide a verry tough to shift cover providing vanagurd for your griblies. hope this helps with any isues and happy wargameing may the hive mind provail.

I tend to take 3 with whip and sword for my flyrants, but never join them.
I have a prime that runs with the hive guard instead as they make a pretty solid unit.

What's with all the thread necromancy lately?

Locking this old thread, but feel free to start a new one on the topic, hivekingoffenris! No harm no foul