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I've been playing a few Marine based armies (Blood angels, and Grey Knights) and have contemplated using Landraiders to shield low cost troops or as a general mobile wall. But I wanted to know if it's not worth the 250 points if they're just gunna blow up. The Landraider for GK can take Psyammo I think, which seeems strong. How well do most armies deal with land raiders?

 JudgeAndJorie wrote:
I've been playing a few Marine based armies (Blood angels, and Grey Knights) and have contemplated using Landraiders to shield low cost troops or as a general mobile wall. But I wanted to know if it's not worth the 250 points if they're just gunna blow up. The Landraider for GK can take Psyammo I think, which seeems strong. How well do most armies deal with land raiders?

Some can't handle them...some will blow up 1-2 on turn one...

I recommend you read up on the Way of the Water Warrior for GK Land Raider tactics...its a bit aged but still holds pretty true.

If I could sum it up in one phrase, "They have their uses."

If you're a Dark Angels player, you've obviously got the dakka banner gimmick.

If you're Blood Angels they're fast.

Those out of the way, a Land Raider can be great in the Relic. If you can eliminate your opponent's anti-AV14 and then grab the relic and hop inside, that's game.

They're huge, so just general board control and LOS shenanigans.

All that being said, it's 250ish points and there are a lot better things you can get for that in the marine book. In Heavy Support alone that's 3 Grav Centurions or a Raven and some change, 2.5 TFCs etc.

Bottom line, it's cool in friendly games but you won't see them out on the top tables very often and that's unlikely to change because Land Raiders are unlikely to change.

BA LRs aren't fast. Just usually a bit cheaper. Which is good. LRs might be one of the better things in the BA book actually.

Martel732 wrote:
BA LRs aren't fast. Just usually a bit cheaper. Which is good. LRs might be one of the better things in the BA book actually.

I wish BA Land Raiders were fast, they would give BA a nice niche of land raider spam lists. 12" and fire both AP3 flamers would be mean.

what about the lascannon land raider?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
what about the lascannon land raider?

Thats the basis for water warrior GK Tactics.

link please? ø,ø

The lascannon raider is great if it is what your army needs. For me I needed transport, I needed armor, and I needed heavy shots. Every game now I hide a scout squad behind the raider and have them hop in first turn. Then it sits back and blasts at stuff while keeping a cheap scoring unit alive.

It's nearly 7 years old but it's what the foundation of my Grey Knights tactics are still based on.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/101214-the-way-of-the-water-warrior/

Having played tri-Raider lists for years, my rule of thumb is:

1 big box is a target
2 big boxes is a tactic
3 big boxes is a strategy

If you take a Land Raider, it will not survive a turn if you do not take other high value units to split resources that could be killing your Land Raider. In todays meta, AV14 isn't bad, and can be very tough if supported correctly.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Having played tri-Raider lists for years, my rule of thumb is:

1 big box is a target
2 big boxes is a tactic
3 big boxes is a strategy

If you take a Land Raider, it will not survive a turn if you do not take other high value units to split resources that could be killing your Land Raider. In todays meta, AV14 isn't bad, and can be very tough if supported correctly.

SJ

This is all true. The problem is that can't get too many other high value units if you have LR in your list. This is why when I borrow Tau, I only use two Riptides and have a squad of fusion suits.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Having played tri-Raider lists for years, my rule of thumb is:

1 big box is a target
2 big boxes is a tactic
3 big boxes is a strategy

If you take a Land Raider, it will not survive a turn if you do not take other high value units to split resources that could be killing your Land Raider. In todays meta, AV14 isn't bad, and can be very tough if supported correctly.

SJ

I also heavily support the use of AV 13 units alongside Raiders.

I like 1 land raider, 2 Vindicators personally.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Having played tri-Raider lists for years, my rule of thumb is:

1 big box is a target
2 big boxes is a tactic
3 big boxes is a strategy

i found on internet some BA lists based on 3 LR
however, to put this much big boxes you need to cut down other things, like scoring units or heavy support, so dunno how much is worth it
i created a list with 2 LR and 2 or 3 razorbacks (plus predator/baal and SR of course) but never played

i totally agree, LR must be bought 2 or more and adding some other "possible targets" like av13 tank, furioso, etc so to spread fire from enemy. if they concentrate fire probably LR will explode but if you got many other viable target, they will survive
my 2 cent

I don't think a unit has to be a land raider to draw fire away from a land raider. A vindicator is half the point cost and just as much priority. I would also say to have a backup plan. If your raider dieing ends the game for you then maybe you should add more options in your list and let the expensive shot sponge be your support unit. (your red herring)

I agree. LRs make very good "bookends" for an armored formation because they have AV 14 sides. All the AV 13/11/10 hulls can go in the middle.

Martel732 wrote:
I agree. LRs make very good "bookends" for an armored formation because they have AV 14 sides. All the AV 13/11/10 hulls can go in the middle.

Yes! I'v made several lists like this. Yay vindicators!

Well the OP is planning to use the LR for BA or GK. However, I plan on using mine to either deliver a full crusader squad across the board, or my HQ and honor guard. I am honestly considering just using a crusader squad in the LRC and sticking the honor guard in a drop pod. Because like you said, you need to have multiple high-priority targets. If my huge beatstick army is in the LRC and my warlord is in there, why would the other person shoot anything else on the board?

So my use of this will be to drop a dread with a heavy flamer/mult-melta behind their lines on turn one. I may use an ironclad w/ two heavy flamers. Then i drive that LRC straight forward. I have a secondary dread sitting back in my deployment zone with 48" weapons. So they can either choose to use their high AV weaponry/meltas to go for my dreadnought who is in cc range and using template weapons, or they can use to shoot down the LRC before it gets deadly.

I took two raiders to a tournament at start 2013

First list I played was 3 helldrakes. TLLC just cannot reliably hit them and they BBQ my troops.

Second list was BA/Tau, Raiders gone by turn 2.

Third list BA with three storm ravens.

Was a terrible tournament for me, in all three games above I was toast by turn 3. Not fun.

Would 3 have helped? Doubt it.

Another game was DE and they shredded my raiders with lances.

Way I see it now you need to at least have a fighting chance with fliers, I think minimum 1 dominant flier, or 2 weak fliers - when you add in basic troops that's it with 3 LRs.

They thus represent most of your combat power and that's simply not enough.

Marine superstars are well known, TFCs, sternguard, TH terms - you can deviate all over the place with lists but you need the combat power and flexibility to take return fire, and 750 points in three boxes can suck quickly in lots of ways.

If you were to do it I would say Iron Hands and get a techmarine with basic squad inside so you can keep survivability high

LRs do suffer from having terrible dakka/pt. In my opinion, AV 14 is not worth it.

I've been thinking on a 1500pt list with 6 Land Raiders. People tell me how easy it to kill AV14, but I seriously doubt even a 4-Tide list could deal enough damage to stop the surviving contents from locking everything in CC.

Its a thought, anyway.

SJ

6 raiders is 1500 pts, if Im not mistaken, 5 would be max at 1500

I was thinking the same thing, but maybe GK land raiders are cheaper?

 Icculus wrote:
I was thinking the same thing, but maybe GK land raiders are cheaper?

Not really cheaper...but generally better with warp quake bubbles.

Inquisiton LRs are cheap in the respect that you only need a 12pt unit to unlock them (even BA pay 65 points to unlock). For 277pts you can have a LR crusader with psybolts and multimelta, giving you 6/12 tl st5 ap5, 4 tl st7 ap4 rending, 1 multimelta shots, carrying a scoring unit (if solo inquisition or taking coatez). You can take SIX of these for 1662pts. Upgrade the rest of the list where appropriate. That is better and cheaper than any raider spam anyone else can do!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That point cost involves the 6 scoring units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That point cost involves the 6 scoring units.

That is pretty nuts.

With black Templar I would have to do it at 2000 points.

6 LRCs with 5man crusader squads in each. no upgrades, then add a bare-bones captain in there. Seems neat, but I am not sure it would actually do anything.

On the other hand I we could run 5 LRCs. 7-man crusader squad in each, a chapter master with some artificer armor and storm shield and some upgrades to the rest of the squads. Plasma guns, or sword brethren or even MM to each of the LRCs.

The problem with all other LRCs is that they dont have psybolts for the stupidly cheap cost of 5 points. Increasing the strength of 16 tl shots a turn for 5 points is ridiculous! Although I think it makes a LRC go from overcosted to about right, so it balances out imo.

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:

First list I played was 3 helldrakes. TLLC just cannot reliably hit them and they BBQ my troops.

Couldn't you keep your troops in the land raiders and just ignore the helldrakes?

Yep, and a single nob-biker unit with bikerboss will demolish them all one by one.
Or a single wraithknight. How much damage will you do to a 3+/5++ t8 jmc per turn? And it's only like 1/5 of your armycost. And there are some lances hovering around. Imo, landraiders are not for spam. They're not battlewagonz.