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Is the Haruspex worth running--for its points, for taking up a Elite FOC slot? Either way please explain your answer. Please only comment if you have play-tested; I'm not interested in theory hammer as it doesn't take into account opponents reaction to facing the model.

Haruspex is Elite.

Haruspex is Elite.

Are you asking if it's worth giving up a Heavy slot(points?) theoretically?

Most of my games found him either dead before he did anything or not that killy or not killy enough when and if he made it to combat.
But the same is true for most MC's where high AP2 ignoring cover shooting is easily available.

rigeld2 wrote:
Haruspex is Elite.

Thank you for the catch.

Personally I don't find the Haruspex worthwhile.

The Elite slot is just too crowded with vital things for me. I'd rather take Zoanthropes and Venomthropes. If I need Lictors...well, Vanguard formations it is!

As fun as the thought of all the MCs is...definately not worth it in that slot.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Personally I don't find the Haruspex worthwhile.

The Elite slot is just too crowded with vital things for me. I'd rather take Zoanthropes and Venomthropes. If I need Lictors...well, Vanguard formations it is!

As fun as the thought of all the MCs is...definately not worth it in that slot.

But have you run them to see if they draw fire away from other units mitigating the need for the mobile cover save.

POKEYtheBIG wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Personally I don't find the Haruspex worthwhile.

The Elite slot is just too crowded with vital things for me. I'd rather take Zoanthropes and Venomthropes. If I need Lictors...well, Vanguard formations it is!

As fun as the thought of all the MCs is...definately not worth it in that slot.

But have you run them to see if they draw fire away from other units mitigating the need for the mobile cover save.

In all honesty? No. Largely because a mobile cover save being applied quite happily to 7 or 8 other monstrous creatures is far more useful and much cheaper in points than a single, I1 (Unwieldy with Crushing Claws btw) monstrous creature with the same vulnerabilities. Multiple Haruspex? Ew. No. No no no. I like the fact I can keep things cheap and effective. The fact that two zoanthropes are so deliciously cheap, have warp blast, synapse, SITW and one other psychic power more than compensate for having to pour points into something that will explode messily, isn't any faster across the table than normal and when it does hit the lines doesn't quite match up to the sheer delicious value a cover save helping the REST of your 'zillas hitting the line has.

I3 - You should read Unwieldy.

My bad. It's a MC. Forgot about that. Still, it's wounds do not compare to the other 30 odd wounds with cover saves. Or with the increased synapse bubble. Or the sheer utility Zoeys come with now.

I'm really not that impressed with the Haruspex, it's reasonably durable for its points but is rather lacking in combat ability and the tongue attack and unique rules aren't exactly wonderful.

I watched a game where a Haruspex was beaten in CC by a 20 man conscript blob with a commisar. Not even a lord commisar...

He has to few attacks, low WS, and is all around just bad at doing what he is supposed to do. It seems like he was designed to be a tar pit in a codex where I can take 30 wounds for 120 points....

The Haruspex has too many 3s in a statline that needs 4s and 5s.

200pts gets you a venom sack, regened, haruspex, if it makes toto combat then it will keep regening all day.... Shame it will never get there

Here was my experience fighting against it.
Me: Hey, I'm new to the game, so I'll be asking lots of questions.
Opponent: Sure, no problem.
Me: What does that monster, and that monster and that monster do? Ok, (now pointing at the horrowsucks), what does that do?

Then I promptly put it at the bottom of things that must die list. Killed in late in the game with tactical squad's sarg.
It needs better stats, or a 2+ save, or bubble of feel no pain, something. As is, it's too expensive and not good enough. Even if it's wounds inflicted always made more attacks it would have a chance. Seriously, I have to cross the table without firing a shot and then lose out to a tac squad in combat?

The problem with the Haruspex is points. If you want to do the lots of monsters thing, you've already to the point where you're running double force orgs before you fill all your slots. So, you're choosing to take a worse monster when you take the Haruspex.
If you were running ~2500 points and single force org, then it might have a use.

-Matt

It almost seems to me that it was developed under the old codex rules for crushing claws and just not updated when they changed. +1d3 attacks would go a long way to making it attractive.

Still a bit undecided here. In my games testing one (stock, no upgrades) it has died in every instance but managed to kill its own value in models before succumbing. Thus far, it has destroyed a tactical Terminator squad, a squad of Wraithguard, a battlewagon, a Dreadnaught, and an assortment of infantry. Best moment so far was a game where it was charged by Ghazghkull:

Round 1: Haruspex did 2 wounds with its regular attacks and 1 with Acid Blood, took 3 wounds in return and regained one for inflicting a wound.
Round 2: Haruspex missed with its attacks and did 2 wounds with Acid Blood, dying from 5 wounds in return but also killing Gazghkull.

I'm hoping to try it out against some of our local Tyranid players next game day, I think it would be quite brutal against other Monstrous Creatures.

For those of you who've used the Haruspex, does Acid Blood tend to do much damage? I'd imagine it doing well at least against Guardsmen or Orks.

I think Venomthropes (for Shrouded) or Zoanthropes (for Synapse and Psychic Powers) are just a much better use of the slot and points. A Haruspex is 10 points more than a brood of 3 Zoanthropes, right? I'd suspect that the 'thropes would do much more damage than the Haruspex AND provide great utility.

I haven't played with it myself, but my brother plays 'nids and the beastie was the first thing he wanted to try.

...It was a very, very sad monster. And I don't think taking multiples would have made it better. Quite the opposite, actually...

Yeah, the Nids Elite slot is the home of our utility, extra synapse web, cover bubbles, deep strike homers etc.

It's not worth giving up the slot for a marginally better Talon-Fex.

If it gave Synapse or had more attacks or had some kind of buff bubble maybe but as it stands it doesn't bring anything to the army something else can't do better. While the Nid points costs came down even at 2k (1 FOC) I still run out of points before I run out of slots I can take better MC's in.

Given that it weighs in at upgunned Carnifex prices I'd much rather add another of those monsters than the Haruspex.

I expect most people's Elites slots will be filled with a venomthrope and 2 Zoanthropes.

Great feedback. I'm already running Zoanthropes and Venomthropes and was just considering the big and ugly as a possible bullet magnet so everything else could get up the board.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I watched a game where a Haruspex was beaten in CC by a 20 man conscript blob with a commisar. Not even a lord commisar...

He has to few attacks, low WS, and is all around just bad at doing what he is supposed to do. It seems like he was designed to be a tar pit in a codex where I can take 30 wounds for 120 points....

Didn't think conscripts could buy commissars. Regular commissars aren't independent characters and have to be bought as a unit upgrade.

It wouldn't surprise me though, if you can put enough attacks out you can take these MC out, especially if you have prescience and/or rad grenades from an Inquisitor or a hidden fist (like the lord commissar can). The fact that you're not running away and have so much chaff to feed it means you get to swing turn after turn.

If you want bullet magnets, take dakka fexes or tyranofexes instead IMO, more survivable per points cost and more likely to be able to do some damage before they die.

wtnind wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I watched a game where a Haruspex was beaten in CC by a 20 man conscript blob with a commisar. Not even a lord commisar...

He has to few attacks, low WS, and is all around just bad at doing what he is supposed to do. It seems like he was designed to be a tar pit in a codex where I can take 30 wounds for 120 points....

Didn't think conscripts could buy commissars. Regular commissars aren't independent characters and have to be bought as a unit upgrade.

It wouldn't surprise me though, if you can put enough attacks out you can take these MC out, especially if you have prescience and/or rad grenades from an Inquisitor or a hidden fist (like the lord commissar can). The fact that you're not running away and have so much chaff to feed it means you get to swing turn after turn.

If you want bullet magnets, take dakka fexes or tyranofexes instead IMO, more survivable per points cost and more likely to be able to do some damage before they die.

Huh, it may very well have been a Lord Commisar. All I know is that he had a power maul and 20 conscripts and he charged the Haruspex, beating it in multiple rounds of combat before finally killing it.

Even a variatian on the Seige Crawler rule would have made it solid. Just let it move 12" like a maulerfiend and it would start to find homes in lists becuase it would be fast enough to actually catch the AV14 it is so good against. It does 2 things well break open buildings, even av15, and open cans. Problem is it can't get to the first, or catch the second.

barnowl wrote:
Even a variatian on the Seige Crawler rule would have made it solid. Just let it move 12" like a maulerfiend and it would start to find homes in lists becuase it would be fast enough to actually catch the AV14 it is so good against. It does 2 things well break open buildings, even av15, and open cans. Problem is it can't get to the first, or catch the second.

I love how the fluff talks about its speed but the crunch make it no faster than anything else. There is no reason this should be a beast.

The Haruspex is the new pyrovore, 'nuff said