Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I played a game last week. I was playing a mission out of the stronghold book and my opponent used 2 weapon batteries out of the stronghold book.

From what I thought the base of the gun was the building and the top was the emplaced weapon.

The sentry Defence system rule allows the emplaced weapon to fire the gun emplacement even if the building is unoccupied.

The building isnt said to have any battlements so is the whole building the gun then?

Why I ask and am looking for clarification is because my opponent had some chaos marine in base contact with the Weapon battery and was firing it manually with their ballistic skill.

If anyone could answer and explain why that would be great, we plan on having a rematch this week as last week we ran out of time.

Thanks!

You can't fire that gun manually. It's an impassable building, meaning noone can embark into it. Being in base to base doesn't count. I don't believe there is anything you can do to increase the BS past 2.

the forum is not a replacement for the rules bud.

your answer is quite clear in the Strong Hold Assault book on p28.


for your piece of mind he was not playing it correctly.

Well I have those models - they do have a 'hatch' / door piece you can add to the side of the model.

But based on the little 'fluff' piece in Stronghold Assault for that weapon, it looks like they clearly meant for it to be unoccupied at all times.

Their lack of transport capacity also stops anyone getting inside.

And the absolutley cannot be fired manually.

 Gunzhard wrote:
Well I have those models - they do have a 'hatch' / door piece you can add to the side of the model.

But based on the little 'fluff' piece in Stronghold Assault for that weapon, it looks like they clearly meant for it to be unoccupied at all times.

it isn't 'fluff' as you put it...the rules for the fortification have 0 access points.

 nutty_nutter wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
Well I have those models - they do have a 'hatch' / door piece you can add to the side of the model.

But based on the little 'fluff' piece in Stronghold Assault for that weapon, it looks like they clearly meant for it to be unoccupied at all times.

it isn't 'fluff' as you put it...the rules for the fortification have 0 access points.

Yeah I'm not denying that ...but the little narrative/fluff piece, before the rules, is what I was referring to - sometimes they give clues as to the designers' intent, as on occasion GW rules alone are unclear.

The rules that come in the box (that predate SA) and the rules in the Stronghold Assault book states that the weapon on the top of each battery is an emplaced weapon and not a gun emplacement. Emplaced weapons are automatically fired or fired manually from a unit inside of the building. Gun Emplacements are fired manually when in base contact. The VWBs cannot be fired manually nor can they be occupied (and thus cannot be claimed by an opponent).

Gotcha thanks for the help! When I read the book the first time I honestly thought they couldnt be fired by anyone. But then I had that game and my opponent said the gun is a weapon emplacement and the guys in base with it could fire it. I said his guys are technically in base with a building and not the fortification and we just decided to let it go in his favor. But I will mention this thread to him.

Thanks again!

One of the most important things to keep in mind is this:
Weapon Emplacements and Emplaced Weapons are two completely different and unrelated Rules, even with the near identical sounding name.

JinxDragon wrote:
One of the most important things to keep in mind is this:
Weapon Emplacements and Emplaced Weapons are two completely different and unrelated Rules, even with the near identical sounding name.

Yes, and this fact has caused a massive amount of confusion amongst the players. I don't understand what GW was thinking when they named these rules.

 Kriswall wrote:
You can't fire that gun manually. It's an impassable building, meaning noone can embark into it. Being in base to base doesn't count. I don't believe there is anything you can do to increase the BS past 2.

magos machine spirit, +1 Bs for i believe 30 points

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
You can't fire that gun manually. It's an impassable building, meaning noone can embark into it. Being in base to base doesn't count. I don't believe there is anything you can do to increase the BS past 2.

magos machine spirit, +1 Bs for i believe 30 points

That upgrade is an option for the batteries, but for the redoubt it is possible.

Also yea when I look at the 2 rules their names are very identical and that is what confused me, but again thanks!

 tankboy145 wrote:
Also yea when I look at the 2 rules their names are very identical and that is what confused me, but again thanks!

It's a pain, and really poorly named.

Emplaced weapons will usually have the weapon name included that helps a little (eg: Emplaced Heavy Bolter), but still you can get the two mixed up if you're not carefull.

Gun Emplacement and Automated Weapons would have been better names I feel, but that's just my opinion.

 tankboy145 wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
You can't fire that gun manually. It's an impassable building, meaning noone can embark into it. Being in base to base doesn't count. I don't believe there is anything you can do to increase the BS past 2.

magos machine spirit, +1 Bs for i believe 30 points

That upgrade is an option for the batteries, but for the redoubt it is possible.

Also yea when I look at the 2 rules their names are very identical and that is what confused me, but again thanks!

You can get Magos for the redoubt, but not the weapon batteries.