Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/01/31 21:54:46
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
(CNN) -- Federal prosecutors say they'll seek the death penalty against Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, arguing that he acted in "an especially heinous, cruel and depraved manner" and lacks remorse.
The highly anticipated announcement Thursday means that when the case against Tsarnaev goes to trial, jurors will not only weigh whether he's guilty, but also whether he deserves to die.
For Liz Norden, it's one small step forward.
Her sons, JP and Paul, each lost a leg in the bombings, which killed three people and injured more than 250 at the April 15 race.
"I just am relieved that it's going forward in the right direction, one step forward in the recovery process, just that the option is out there on the table for the jurors, if that's the way it goes," she told CNN's
Whenever the case goes to trial, Norden said she plans to attend every day.
"It's important to me. I'm trying to make sense of what happened that day. My boys went to watch a friend run the marathon, and one came home 46 days later. The other one, 32 days later. And their lives are forever changed," she told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "So I want to try and find out, somehow, to make some sense of how somebody could do this to all these innocent people."
Authorities allege Tsarnaev, a Chechnya-born American, and his brother Tamerlan planted two homemade bombs near the finish line of the marathon, then killed a Massachusetts Institute of Technology police officer three days later.
The attacks triggered the massive manhunt that led to Tsarnaev's capture. Police shot and killed Tamerlan Tsarnaev during the manhunt.
"The nature of the conduct at issue and the resultant harm compel this decision," U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a statement released by the Justice Department Thursday announcing that prosecutors would pursue the death penalty in the case.
After Holder made his decision, prosecutors filed a notice listing factors that they argue justify a death sentence in the case. Among them: The attack killed multiple people, involved substantial planning and premeditation and involved betrayal of the United States, prosecutors said.
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is charged with 30 federal counts stemming from the attack. He has pleaded not guilty to all charges.
The decision announced Thursday is no surprise, CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin said.
"This is a case, that, if you believe in the death penalty, seems to cry out for the death penalty, even though the defendant is only 19 years old, and potentially the junior partner to his late brother," Toobin said.
But that doesn't mean it's an open-and-shut case.
"One of the most interesting, difficult, strategic decisions the defense faces," Toobin said, is whether to push for a change of venue for the trial.
"Boston was obviously deeply traumatized by this incident. And the jury pool is Boston, if the case remains where it is. But Boston is also probably the most liberal city in the country. Death penalty opposition there is higher than anywhere else," Toobin said. "So does the defense go somewhere else, where people don't have the immediate association with the crime? Or do they go somewhere that might not oppose the death penalty in the same numbers?"
Massachusetts abolished the death penalty three decades ago, but prosecutors can seek the death penalty against Tsarnaev because federal law allows for the penalty in certain circumstances.
Despite Holder's decision to authorize the death penalty in the Tsarnaev case, prosecutors still could reach a plea deal for a lesser sentence with his attorneys, who include death penalty lawyer Judy Clarke.
Federal officials weighed a number of factors before they announced their decision, including the opinions of victims of the deadly attack.
Survivors were asked to fill out a questionnaire about what they thought about the death penalty.
Marc Fucarile, who lost a leg in the bombing, said he has no doubt about where he stands: Tsarnaev deserves to die.
"I prefer the death penalty, because I prefer that people know that if you terrorize our country, you're going to be put to death," he told CNN affiliate WCVB. "And I strongly believe that's how it should be."
Life since the bombing hasn't been easy, he said.
"This is almost kind of too easy for him (Tsarnaev)," Fucarile told WCVB. "I still haven't walked for more than day in a prosthetic, and it's almost a year later. ... Life's good, you know. It's going to get better, but it's going to be a road, and it's going to be a long road for the rest of our lives."
In a statement Thursday, Gov. Deval Patrick urged the state's residents to stay strong.
"One way or another, based on the evidence, Tsarnaev will die in prison. In each milestone of the case -- today's announcement, the trial and every other significant step in the justice process -- the people hurt by the Marathon bombings and the rest of us so shocked by it will relive that tragedy," he said. "The best we can do is remind each other that we are a stronger Commonwealth than ever, and that nothing can break that spirit."
Tsarnaev's attorney did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Reached before federal authorities announced their decision to seek the death penalty, Zubeidat Tsarnaev, the suspect's mother, did not comment on the specifics of the case.
"We are, you know, sickened about our child. ... We have nothing in our heads or in our hearts, so what should I say? We are just really sick," she told CNN's Nick Paton Walsh in a telephone interview.
"The only thing I want to say," she said, "is I want the whole world to hear that I love my son, my precious Dzhokhar. That's it."
Thousands of miles away, another mother -- Norden -- said her love for her own sons makes her want to learn more about Dzhokhar Tsarnaev during the trial, to try to understand why the deadly attacks occurred.
"I watch my sons, and it's sad. Their lives have changed, and they're OK with it. They've learned to accept it. But I can't," she said, her voice cracking. "You know, those are my kids, and they went to watch a marathon on the streets of Boston, and it shouldn't have happened."
2014/01/31 22:02:32
Subject: Re:Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
Flip the switch...I even do it for free to save the government money......wait....lotto ticket style.....
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2014/01/31 23:04:34
Subject: Re:Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
While I feel the death penalty is a fitting end to the story, I'm troubled by the inevitable flood of comments this thread will see showing just a little more bloodthirst than is appropriate.
I've more respect for "Shooters" compare to "Bombers/IED planters". By chance you not "influence" by the rockstar quality image of him on the Rolling Stone mag by chance?
The view in the US of A of him for quite a few (Not singling you out Dae.)
My view of him
Spoiler:
[Violent video hidden by Moderator]
Its "novel" that someone so young in the US can do this compare to a actual combat zone
Same person to me
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/01 07:43:08
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2014/02/01 00:15:55
Subject: Re:Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
Without a shadow of a doubt to his guilt? Hang him in public. Cut his arms and legs off first and cauterize the wounds so he doesn't bleed out. Make the bastard suffer. We can't make him feel all the pain and damage he caused to everyone, but we sure as hell can make him feel some of it.
You call it bloodthirsty, I call it justice. When a man murders and blows limbs off of children, he deserves whatever torture humanity can grant before God gets His hands on him.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2014/02/01 03:53:58
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
daedalus wrote: While I feel the death penalty is a fitting end to the story, I'm troubled by the inevitable flood of comments this thread will see showing just a little more bloodthirst than is appropriate.
My thoughts exactly, although in this instance more than most, it seems an exercise in futility to put him to death.
2014/02/01 03:59:15
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
daedalus wrote: While I feel the death penalty is a fitting end to the story, I'm troubled by the inevitable flood of comments this thread will see showing just a little more bloodthirst than is appropriate.
My thoughts exactly, although in this instance more than most, it seems an exercise in futility to put him to death.
It already happened. Im just glad people like that dont make the laws.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2014/02/01 18:01:43
Subject: Re:Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
So those who are OIF/OEF veterans who have been elected into Congress are bloodthirsty eh....Isn't there a double amputee female Rep/Sen who lost both her legs to an IED..If he's guilty...fry him....if not found guilty don't act outrage. Zimmermann case X1m. Guilty by perception but acquitted by his peers...
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2014/02/01 18:32:44
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
timetowaste85 wrote: Without a shadow of a doubt to his guilt? Hang him in public. Cut his arms and legs off first and cauterize the wounds so he doesn't bleed out. Make the bastard suffer. We can't make him feel all the pain and damage he caused to everyone, but we sure as hell can make him feel some of it.
You call it bloodthirsty, I call it justice. When a man murders and blows limbs off of children, he deserves whatever torture humanity can grant before God gets His hands on him.
While normally useless human trash like him should simply be burned and their remains tossed down a deep dark hole, as he's an Islamist nuttjob, the death penalty only gives him the glory & martyrdom he's essentially seeking.
Thus, I'd say hack his balls off, (the ultimate humiliation towards an Islamist extremist), and then keep him chained up and alive on IV's until he rots of old age and thus deny him his goal of martyring himself as Radical Jihadists love to do.
Unfortunately the politically correct whelps that run the show are instead content to simply bury their heads and ignore the real threat that the Islamists represent. While they're busy recruiting and preaching their extremist hatred of everyone bar their own twisted view of Islam, we're content to pander and try to make nice with hug-a-thug policies instead of calling out these murdering b******** for what they truly are.
2014/02/01 18:34:41
Subject: Re:Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
Jihadin wrote: So those who are OIF/OEF veterans who have been elected into Congress are bloodthirsty eh....Isn't there a double amputee female Rep/Sen who lost both her legs to an IED..If he's guilty...fry him....if not found guilty don't act outrage. Zimmermann case X1m. Guilty by perception but acquitted by his peers...
it is a weird day when you are the one making the most sense in the thread.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2014/02/01 19:11:37
Subject: Re:Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
Jihadin wrote: So those who are OIF/OEF veterans who have been elected into Congress are bloodthirsty eh....Isn't there a double amputee female Rep/Sen who lost both her legs to an IED..If he's guilty...fry him....if not found guilty don't act outrage. Zimmermann case X1m. Guilty by perception but acquitted by his peers...
Eh? No, I was suggesting that people who recommend out of band archaic forms of torturous, prolonged death are bloodthirsty. I have no problem with the death penalty. I have a problem with suggesting vicious "eye for an eye" punishments do more harm than good.
AlexHolker wrote: The FBI violated his constitutional right to counsel while interrogating him. It took a judge acting on her own initiative to stop them.
Not quite. The FBI using the need to ensure there was no other imminent danger to the citizenry was within legal bounds to interrogate him as they did. The Judge's actions, while legal themselves, seemed more activist on her part then anything else. The FBI was doing nothing at all illegal, and were in no way violating his rights.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/01 21:04:36
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
AlexHolker wrote: The FBI violated his constitutional right to counsel while interrogating him. It took a judge acting on her own initiative to stop them.
Not quite. The FBI using the need to ensure there was no other imminent danger to the citizenry was within legal bounds to interrogate him as they did. The Judge's actions, while legal themselves, seemed more activist on her part then anything else. The FBI was doing nothing at all illegal, and were in no way violating his rights.
You are wrong on two points.
1. They were interrogating him for two days with no signs of stopping. That is much more than is necessary for that "imminent danger" excuse to work.
2. If the goal of your interrogation is to ensure there aren't any more bombs, conduct the interrogation "off the record". You still get what you claim you are wanting without violating his constitutional rights. Everybody wins.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2014/02/01 21:15:01
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
djones520 wrote: You're still failing to provide the proof that what they did was illegal, and in anyway a violation of his rights.
Just because you don't "like" it, doesn't make it so.
The Sixth Amendment of the US Constitution guarantees his right to legal counsel during interrogation.
For example, quoting from Brewer v. Williams:
Rather, the clear rule of Massiah is that, once adversary proceedings have commenced against an individual, he has a right to legal representation when the government interrogates him.
You might not understand the founding principles of your own damn country, but don't assume everyone is so ignorant.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2014/02/01 21:40:19
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
Eh, after his post, I agree fully with Experiment. Cut the guy's balls off. Arms and legs while you're at it. He can survive off a feeding tube and a catheter. Once again, bloodthirsty? No. Justice. I'm not advocating anything beyond what he deserves.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2014/02/01 21:44:27
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
djones520 wrote: You're still failing to provide the proof that what they did was illegal, and in anyway a violation of his rights.
Just because you don't "like" it, doesn't make it so.
The Sixth Amendment of the US Constitution guarantees his right to legal counsel during interrogation.
For example, quoting from Brewer v. Williams:
Rather, the clear rule of Massiah is that, once adversary proceedings have commenced against an individual, he has a right to legal representation when the government interrogates him.
You might not understand the founding principles of your own damn country, but don't assume everyone is so ignorant.
Watch where you are slinging "ignorant" comments.
RULE 5. INITIAL APPEARANCE (DEC. 1, 2012)
(a) In General.
(1) Appearance Upon an Arrest.
(A) A person making an arrest within the United States must take the defendant without unnecessary delay before a magistrate judge, or before a state or local judicial officer as Rule 5(c) provides, unless a statute provides otherwise.
Charges where filed on Sunday evening. An appearance was scheduled by the courts on Monday morning. That is when the Judge met with Tsarnaev. Those same rules require the court to inform the suspect of his right to counsel. There was no need to provide said council prior to that. And you are asserting that he was under 48 hours of constant interrogation, which in itself is a falsehood.
Go read up on the Public Safety Exception as well, before you start slinging more accusations of ignorance.
Once again, his civil rights where in NO WAY violated, and your claims are foundless.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/01 21:56:12
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/02/01 21:44:52
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
Because he feels justified in doing it. Just like they felt justified in what they were doing.
How about we just say, yeah, maybe we shouldn't treat people inhumanely no matter what and nobody else should either? At least then we don't sit around saying "well, it's only okay when I do it."
2014/02/01 21:55:25
Subject: Death Penalty Sought in Boston Bombing Trial
timetowaste85 wrote: Eh, after his post, I agree fully with Experiment. Cut the guy's balls off. Arms and legs while you're at it. He can survive off a feeding tube and a catheter. Once again, bloodthirsty? No. Justice. I'm not advocating anything beyond what he deserves.
No that's blood just plain bloodthirsty that's not justice at all and if it turns out he's Innocent down the road then you're just being cruel to someone for didn't do anything wrong. Justice isn't about bringing misery and suffering to others it's about fairness, safety and demonstrating good