Thunderhammers and Daemonhammers should be AP1

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**Sir Arun**

Given that these weapons lost a lot of their bite after 6th edition came around, wouldn't you think making them AP1 instead of 2 will give them their strength back, or will it be overkill?

**Formosa**

No thunder hammers should have stun and sunder, stun is auto shaken vehicles if hit and sunder is rr pen dice on buildings and vehicles, it's not as good as tank hunter etc

**Valkyrie**

I don't get how they've lost a lot of their bite, especially when compared to Power Weapons. I agree with the guy above me on his ideas.

**Sir Arun**

Valkyrie wrote:
I don't get how they've lost a lot of their bite, especially when compared to Power Weapons.

Youre comparing them to power weapons when you should be comparing them to powerfists. Offensively, an assault terminator squad now only performs marginally better than a normal terminator squad in terms of dishing out; with the advantage solely remaining in bringing down MCs to Initiative 1 if they survive 10+ S8 AP2 attacks. The biggest defensive advantage over normal termies comes in their storm shields, but that is not up for debate anyways.

**Furyou Miko**

Um, when were they better? Thunder Hammer has always just been Power Fist + Stun.

Anyway, going from AP2 to AP1 will make no difference other than to very occasionally mean that they don't stun enemy vehicles... wait, what?

**Formosa**

Except that they don't stun tanks anymore at all unless you Pen it, concussion should have had the added effect of an auto shake on vehicles, they took this away and kept the cost of the hammers the same, should be fixed

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw it was a 2 edition nerf, they went from auto stun to auto shake to nothing at all

**Sir Arun**

Formosa wrote:
Except that they don't stun tanks anymore at all unless you Pen it, concussion should have had the added effect of an auto shake on vehicles, they took this away and kept the cost of the hammers the same, should be fixed

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw it was a 2 edition nerf, they went from auto stun to auto shake to nothing at all

Well 2 editions ago stormshields were only 4++ in cc, so back then assault termies were crap. they were at their peak in 5th, but the increase in MCs in 6th actually means they are needed more than ever in the current meta. In the SM armory, Centurions are the only thing that has similar potential to taking down nasty stuff, but range issues and the prevalence of cover saves make assault termies still worth taking.

**Furyou Miko**

Against MCs, AP1 is no better than AP2, and you're saying Thunderhammers are vital for killing MCs, so your own argument makes your proposed buff uneccesary.

**BrotherOfBone**

Agreed with the above^ Your point is that with MCs you now need Thunder Hammers to be AP1 but that ignores armour anyway. Also, how would AP1 make Thunder Hammers /any/ better apart from damaging vehicles, which they should destroy in one round of combat anyway?

**Sir Arun**

I never said I wanted THs to be better against MCs. Youre reading too much into my "6th edition has more MCs so we need Hammernators more than ever" comment. I merely wanted the edge they had lost against vehicles back.

Formosa wrote:
No thunder hammers should have stun and sunder, stun is auto shaken vehicles if hit and sunder is rr pen dice on buildings and vehicles, it's not as good as tank hunter etc

Stun and sunder? Did you make those up? I searched in the index but cant find them in the BRB.

**Furyou Miko**

Sunder's a horus heresy rule, and stun presumably refers to the stun effect on the vehicle damage table.

**Bobug**

Not gunna lie assault termies (and thunder hammers in general) are one of the unit/weapons thats in a pretty good spot atm I think. Its tactical terminators that could probably use a buff, and if any power weapons need fixing its the crozius arcanium.

**Formosa**

Spot on furyou, I would fix the crozius by giving it the sunder and strikedown rules, it's only str6 on a marine but you are being smited by the FURY OF THE EMPRAH and strikedown fits the theme in my mind, thunder hammers should have had that