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Hey guys,

I haven't played in a few years, I used to play Tau and I'm just getting back into things with Dark Angels. I bought the Dark Vengeance Box Set and have been building on that. So far I have:

Company Master armed with bolt pistol, power sword and combi-weapon; Librarian Turmiel, who carries a bolt pistol and force sword; Veteran Sergeant Raphael and his Tactical Squad; Deathwing Terminator Squad Barachiel; Sergeant Arion and a Ravenwing Bike Squadron that comes equipped with twin-linked boltguns.

An extra tactical squad from the Dark Vengeance set.

Drop Pod

Belial

9 extra terminators a friend gave me (not sure if I will use them or not yet)

I want to start playing games again and I've been studying the codex and have been trying to put together a decent army list so I know what bits I need to buy next!

So here is what I have come up with so far with the help of someone else.

HQ

Belial (190)

Deathwing Command Squad (260) heavy flamer, apothecary

Librarian (95) field generator

Command Squad (135) apothecary, 2 meltaguns

ELITE

Dreadnought (120) 2 autocannons

TROOPS

Tactical (170) 10 men, full plasma

Tactical (170) 10 men, full plasma

Deathwing Terminators [they count as troops with Belial] (245) assault cannon, chainfist

FAST ATTACK

Ravenwing Attack Squadron (236) 6 bikes, 2 x meltas, 1 attack bike with MM

HEAVY SUPPORT

Devastator Squad (130) 4x missile launchers



What is everyone's thoughts?

As far as dark angels go, you pretty much have to go with Ravenwing, Death Wing, or Green Wing. Dont mix and match in order for ravenwing to be really stong you have to go full into it, the same can be said for death wing. If your looking for a strong army I recommend investing in Ravenwing. Deathwing is pretty weak right now to be honest. Green wing can be good, but at that point you're just playing codex marines lol.

My advice go bike army, the devastation banner with bikes is very strong, black knights are a solid unit and so are land speeders.

Good luck and happy building!

The Dark Angels player I play almost 80% of the time at my local store runs that banner, and I always make it a point to get rid of it as fast as I can. He usually drops it in a LRC, and runs 2 or 3 tac squads near it. As soon as it pops my Heldrake has a field day with it, but the fact remains that I must get rid of the LRC or all 30 of those marines and the hurricane bolters drop murderous hate on my Chaos marines

I kind of like the idea of going full ravenwing now after looking into it more...

Something like this:

120 pts Librarian + Bike/Powerfield Generator/Auspex
185 pts Command Squad + Banner of Devastation

200 pts Sammael

181 pts Ravenwing Attack Squad (6 bikes) + 2 Meltaguns
55 pts Attack Bike + Multimelta
75 pts Land Speeder Typhoon

181 pts Ravenwing Attack Squad (6 bikes) + 2 Meltaguns
55 pts Attack Bike + Multimelta
75 pts Land Speeder Typhoon

171 pts Ravenwing Attack Squad (6 bikes) + 2 Flamers
55 pts Attack Bike + Multimelta

210 pts Ravenwing Black Knights (5 bikes)

185 pts Contemptor Mortis Pattern Dreadnought + 2 twin-linked Lascannons/Searchlight

1749 points total

That is a strong start, make your command squad the full five bikes, it go FAQed so you can bring five black knights instead of three. Also upgrade one to an apocathary, the feel no pain works great on all the toughness five. Also I have used the dark shroud a lot and it does work the plus 1 to cover helps alot, but if your going to bring the powerfield generator you prob dont need it. My other advice is drop the weapons off the ravenwing squads. You want to make use of the devastation banner as much as you can so you want to shoot your bolt guns as much as you can.

Also 5 black knights on there own is risky, as with out some protection they will just get shot off the board. A fun thing to do is if you have 2 HQs on bikes, you can bring two commands squads I think, give that squad an apoc, and they at least have a cover save. I tend to run 4 regualr bike squads and have the banner turbo boost between both groups of two so four squads can shoot 2 times as much. Finally, it is sometimes worth while to bring the grenade launcher on one of the black knights. Reducing toughness by one helps your bolt guns do a lot more wounds, also it can bring toughness four down to toughness three so your plasma talons instant death most targets. Also be sure to check the dark angels faq on the GW website, there were some other changes to ravenwing I dont remember. One big on is plasma talons were faq'ed to be rapid fire.

Just so thoughts on your list it is a really good start though, glad we could help!

Thanks for the help guys... I now have a list I am 100% content with.

Sammael on his Jetbike

Librarian on bike, level 1 with Melta Bombs

Ravenwing Command Squad with 5 black knights, Ravenwing Apotecary, Ravenwing Champion, Standard of Devastation

Nephilim Jetfighter with Twin Linked Lascannon

Ravenwing Attack Squadron: Attack Bike with Multi Melta, 5 Ravenwing Bikers 2 with Plasmaguns, 1 Ravenwing Veteran SGT with Melta Bombs

Ravenwing Attack Squadron: Attack Bike with Multi Melta, 5 Ravenwing Bikers 2 with Plasmaguns, 1 Ravenwing Veteran SGT with Melta Bombs

Ravenwing Black Knights: 4 Black Knights, 1 Huntmaster with Corvus Hammer, 3 Ravenwing Grenade Launchers

Ravenwing Support Squadron: 3 x Landspeeders with Multi Melta & Heavy Flamer

Vindicator with Seige Shield

Total 1847 points

Chunder wrote:
Thanks for the help guys... I now have a list I am 100% content with.

Sammael on his Jetbike

Librarian on bike, level 1 with Melta Bombs

Ravenwing Command Squad with 5 black knights, Ravenwing Apotecary, Ravenwing Champion, Standard of Devastation

Nephilim Jetfighter with Twin Linked Lascannon

Ravenwing Attack Squadron: Attack Bike with Multi Melta, 5 Ravenwing Bikers 2 with Plasmaguns, 1 Ravenwing Veteran SGT with Melta Bombs

Ravenwing Attack Squadron: Attack Bike with Multi Melta, 5 Ravenwing Bikers 2 with Plasmaguns, 1 Ravenwing Veteran SGT with Melta Bombs

Ravenwing Black Knights: 4 Black Knights, 1 Huntmaster with Corvus Hammer, 3 Ravenwing Grenade Launchers

Ravenwing Support Squadron: 3 x Landspeeders with Multi Melta & Heavy Flamer

Vindicator with Seige Shield

Total 1847 points

Some points:

i)Librarian might want to consider a PFG if you have tau or baledrakes in your area.

ii) Nephilim suck. If you like the model then by all means use it. But the rules and points of it are just bad.

iii) Consider melta guns, or attack bikes with MM over plasmaguns. Your black knights already have plasma, what do you have for AV13/14. Also, drop the vet sergeants, you should already be within 12 of the standard, so the LD isn't needed that badly. You should try to get more bikes in this list to make use of the banner.

iv) You can only have 1 ravenwing grenade launcher for every 3 bikes. So the max you could have there is 1. However the squad of black knights shouldn't be in this list. Instead taken them as a second command squad to get cheaper bikes, and the ravenwing banner.

v) As for you landspeeders, I don't like the loadout. Personally I'd go all one way or the other. Dual HF or Dual MM or HB + CML. This said I would actually go with more bikes over speeders.

As a final note, Belial is not a good HQ choice, unless you are making a pure DW army. remember, the company master in the DV box can be used as Azrael, considering he has exactly the right items.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Chunder wrote:
Thanks for the help guys... I now have a list I am 100% content with.

Some points:

i)Librarian might want to consider a PFG if you have tau or baledrakes in your area.

ii) Nephilim suck. If you like the model then by all means use it. But the rules and points of it are just bad.

iii) Consider melta guns, or attack bikes with MM over plasmaguns. Your black knights already have plasma, what do you have for AV13/14. Also, drop the vet sergeants, you should already be within 12 of the standard, so the LD isn't needed that badly. You should try to get more bikes in this list to make use of the banner.

iv) You can only have 1 ravenwing grenade launcher for every 3 bikes. So the max you could have there is 1. However the squad of black knights shouldn't be in this list. Instead taken them as a second command squad to get cheaper bikes, and the ravenwing banner.

v) As for you landspeeders, I don't like the loadout. Personally I'd go all one way or the other. Dual HF or Dual MM or HB + CML. This said I would actually go with more bikes over speeders.

As a final note, Belial is not a good HQ choice, unless you are making a pure DW army. remember, the company master in the DV box can be used as Azrael, considering he has exactly the right items.

Thanks for that! a few questions...

ii) Using it for anti-air, although its not the greatest, at least its something for a chance?

iii) My attack bikes are equiped with Multi Meltas? I'll look into dropping the Vet Sgt though...

iv) Sorry that was a miss type, I do only have 1 per 3 bikes


What would your list look like for 1850 points as Pure Ravenwing?

The best AA we can bring is a Contemptor Mortis-Pattern Dreadnought. It's now an elites slots choice, too, which you won't be utilizing at all in any pure Ravenwing list so it should be free.

Unfortunately the rules for it are hard to pin down right now. The most current rules (therefore the legal ones to play) are from this book and from what I understand, it's been tweaked a lot since the last IA book it was in. I think it's 175 base cost now and have no clue what the upgrade points for going lascannons are. Still, it's a great anti-air/armor or air/infantry option depending on how you kit it up.

The Nephilim is unfortunately really, really bad at fighting armor. It's only reliable gun to do it is a single (albeit twin-linked) Lascannon. You're better off taking the Avenger Mega-bolter and having it go chew up troops or AV10 vehicles like Warwalkers. And, if you're going to do that, you're better off taking the Dark Talon as it might not be as effective at it, it can hover mode in case you need it to shoot for a turn instead of fly off the board, and brings a lot of utility besides with the blind gun and stasis bomb. Plus it benefits from the Banner of Devastation which turns it into a pretty solid Dakka machine.

I also disagree with the "YOU HAVE TO RUN ONE WING ONLY" thing people tell you online. You just have to keep in mind when you split the roles of the units in your army and make each of them specialized, they can fail in the role you brought them for so you lose redundancy. Even in my pure Ravenwing list, I tend to bring a bare-bones Tactical squad. Their only goal in life is to sit in the back and score on objectives on my part of the table. 70 points to get 5 wounds (even if it's just T4 instead of T5) is better than 80 points to get 3 wounds, if all they are going to do is attempt to score. It's worked out for me in a number of games.

Dual-Wing lists are actually pretty good, too. I believe they are stronger than mono-wing lists simply because it gives you strategic depth so if a guy is rocking the one thing that makes you useless, you have the capabilities of dealing with it.

I strongly feel pure Ravenwing lists should splash about 250-550 points worth of Deathwing units, else you're spending 5 points a model for teleport homers that see no use so you're better off painting your bikes White and running Codex: Space Marines. It's worked out fairly well for me. It helps quite a bit against common tournament Eldar lists because Eldar struggle against Sv2+. They might have bladestorm on all their shuriken guns, but it takes the same average of wounds for there to be a 6 rolled as you are likely to save a 2+ save to begin with, and most tournament Eldar lists rely on number of shots rather than saves by utilizing the Serpent Shield and Scatter Lasers on everything. Ravenwing Lists get blown to pieces by this. Deathwing guys can handle it a lot better. Plus, TW Heavy Flamers on guys you can deepstrike in murders unit in their whole codex not in the safety of a Wave Serpent.

It does mean you're weaker against Tau, though. Interceptor on all their units will jack up your deep strike shenanigans.

Sorry I didn't see your attack bikes.

I'd run something more like this :

HQ – Sammael
HQ – Librarian – Mastery Level 1, PFG, auspex

HQ* – Ravenwing Command Squad – 5x, Champion, Apothecary, Dakka standard bearer, Grenade Launcher
HQ* – Ravenwing Command Squad – 5x Ravenwing standard
835

Troops – Ravenwing Attack Squad – 5x + 1x Atk Bike – 2 meltaguns, Multimelta
Troops – Ravenwing Attack Squad – 5x + 1x Atk Bike – 2 meltaguns, Multimelta
Troops – Ravenwing Attack Squad – 5x + 1x Atk Bike – Multimelta, meltabombs
Troops – Ravenwing Attack Squad – 5x + 1x Atk Bike – Multimelta, meltabombs
806

Fast Attack – Ravenwing Black Knights – 5x 1 Grenade Launcher
210


Army total 1851 (if you are being very strict with points, then just remove a meltabomb or the champion).

This is the kind of list I most like at the moment. When it comes to air, the ravenwing have a few options:

i) run away/avoid it, with you 12/24 move per turn it can be easy in some cases to simply out maneuver the flyer

ii) position the PFG to cover the models going to be hit by that heldrake/vector strike

iii) Chase them with plasma talons if you really need to take it out. (TL rapidfire plasmaguns will bring flyers down).

iv) FMC's are quite manageable with this list, because the bolters should eventually bring a flyer down due to grounding checks, and then your plasmatalons can do their thing.