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I'm thinking with all the returns et al, did GW learn from making this PoS book? Or do you think the new books they'll be releasing will be garbage?

GW doesn't learn lessons, really.

True enough. Should have thought about that... At least my Dark Eldar have a year + before GW kills them.

No. The question is: Did you learn your lesson?

I just checked. The Tyranid Limited Edition codex is still in stock in Canada, though I can't see the numbers any more. Being completely unable to guess their next move, no one knows for sure (I don't think GW even knows) they might stop selling LE Codexes since this one didn't sell at all.

Seriously, I think this is the only one that didn't immediately sell out. And then they had the banner on the homepage of their website that had the number for like 2 weeks after. They still had like 25% left.

That's probably the only thing they will take away from this.

Though didn't the 3rd Chaos codex suck so bad they made 3.5? Or was it too powerful?

I don't collect nids, but I feel so bad for nids players. They sure got crapped on

One can hope they learn, but it would be the kind of action for a blind and foolish GW optimist.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
No. The question is: Did you learn your lesson?

^ This

streamdragon wrote:GW doesn't learn lessons, really.

Iron_Captain wrote:No. The question is: Did you learn your lesson?

Well, that's pretty much the thread.

GW didn't learn anything for two important reasons:

1.) They can't learn. They have no way to gauge things. They have no PR department and no communication with their customer base, really the only entertainment-related company I know of to behave like this. I think the execs really have zero idea of how anything is received

2.) They don't care about how it was received. They still tricked a lot of people into buying it and that's all that counts. As for those silly neckbeards who want to play their games, they don't want you buying their products anyway.

If something does go wrong at GW that the execs actually learn or care about, they either blame the lower managers, independent retailers, the customers, or that pesky new-fangled internet.

What lesson is there to learn? To make a third OP codex after Tau and Eldar?

Naw wrote:
What lesson is there to learn? To make a third OP codex after Tau and Eldar?

Agreed.

Ulcis wrote:

Naw wrote:
What lesson is there to learn? To make a third OP codex after Tau and Eldar?

Agreed.

Or maybe they could have made a codex that had a semblance of internal balance that attempted to fix the problems of the last one.

The quality of a codex is not measured solely by how well it stands up next to the current power codex.

I think it's a little early to say; the poor selling of the LE nid codex is very telling though and it's not like GW doesn't gauge how their stuff is selling.

Not all codices are made by the same folks at GW (the nid codex is suspiciously without a designated author) and some have a better grasp of the game than others, it seems clear.

it's difficult to know what's going on at GW other than upcoming products without insider information. They've made themselves faceless by having zero PR, which gives me the impression that a good lot of them couldn't care less if the game is balanced, so long as they're selling stuff.

GW has a vested interest in selling models, so if the rules for some models make them not sell well, then to some extent there must be at least some people at GW that view the nid codex as dropping the ball.

I'd really like to see some extra viability added with the dataslates, but I'm not holding my breath.

As evidenced by their drastic drop in stock value (it's still of good value, mind you) and their stagnated revenue despite constantly raising prices, (which suggests they're losing customers) GW would seem to be in a state of decline, which MIGHT warrant changes. Kirby, the CEO, is getting old and could retire somewhat soon, so that might be a reason to squeeze as much money out of his customers as he can before jumping ship, which is what any self-respecting CEO would be inclined to do.

Other people have made the same argument, however since Kirby owns a large number of shares, he can make more money by leaving the company in a successful state paying good dividends and with a high share price, than by grabbing a few years more pay and skipping town.

In other words, he has no incentive to take a short term view.

That does not mean, of course, that the strategy he is using must be the best one. I think we have to wait a couple of years to find out.

JPong wrote:
I just checked. The Tyranid Limited Edition codex is still in stock in Canada, though I can't see the numbers any more. Being completely unable to guess their next move, no one knows for sure (I don't think GW even knows) they might stop selling LE Codexes since this one didn't sell at all.

Seriously, I think this is the only one that didn't immediately sell out. And then they had the banner on the homepage of their website that had the number for like 2 weeks after. They still had like 25% left.

That's probably the only thing they will take away from this.

Though didn't the 3rd Chaos codex suck so bad they made 3.5? Or was it too powerful?

Too powerful.

Naw wrote:
What lesson is there to learn? To make a third OP codex after Tau and Eldar?

Yes while Ignoring that the Daemon codex is good and the Necron Codex is good and that the Space Marine codex has some fluffy and Competitive builds buts yes lets all beat the Tau Eldar drum as to why Nids should get a poorly thought out, bland , non fluffy Codex with more of an emphasis on a you to chapter house than making a good book.

Don't mistake my comment here for trying to be rude to you, I just really dislike people thinking that nid players were wanting an OP dex that had to stomp Tau and Eldar.

Read the book and you will see it was poorly written and looks like they just flat ran out of time to write it correctly.

Blacksails wrote:The quality of a codex is not measured solely by how well it stands up next to the current power codex.

Exactly. You shouldn't be comparing new nids against tau, you should be comparing them against DA, SM, and CSM, which were done correctly (well, not fluffwise, but that's another matter). It's better that they make the game reasonably balanced and just fix the one or two codices that are overpowered, rather than forcing real codex creep where there wasn't before.

Naw wrote:
What lesson is there to learn? To make a third OP codex after Tau and Eldar?

That's not my problem with it. My problem with it is it's unbalanced internally.

The codex is imbalanced, or it just came out and a few powergamers figured out the most obvious way to win and you haven't had the time to see its balance yet?

Certainly, it must be GW's fault!

Show me a balanced codex.

I would gladly trade my Eldar for Tyranids. At least they are enjoyable and require thought.

Naw wrote:
Show me a balanced codex.

I would gladly trade my Eldar for Tyranids. At least they are enjoyable and require thought.

Then...trade your army?

DA, CSM, SM, and Guard are all pretty good. I didn't say perfect, of course, but pretty good.

You'd never know it given the internet's primal scream of "HELLDRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", and worse about vendettas, etc., but that's mostly from people who tend to immediately fall into solipsistic obsessions about things. Take a deep breath, a step back, and a mindset that can rationally compare things to each other, and things really aren't so bad for in-codex balance in most codices.

Even then, the most obvious examples I can think of codices with structural problems are old ones like orks or DE, and they only had problems once 6th edition changed the rules out from underneath them.

 Ailaros wrote:

Blacksails wrote:The quality of a codex is not measured solely by how well it stands up next to the current power codex.

Exactly. You shouldn't be comparing new nids against tau, you should be comparing them against DA, SM, and CSM, which were done correctly (well, not fluffwise, but that's another matter). It's better that they make the game reasonably balanced and just fix the one or two codices that are overpowered, rather than forcing real codex creep where there wasn't before.

Okay...well the Tyranid codex is poor when compared to DA, SM, and CSM so what are you trying to say? The Tyranid codex is horribly balanced against itself, it has a slew of draw backs that aren't counter balanced by any kind of positive the two major ones being IB and Tervigons but the codex is full of similar points of data, it is boring and even more monolist than the last codex. The 5th codex wasn't received well and this new one didn't exactly shake things up so why on earth are people still harping on about waiting and seeing?

Oh, I think GW has learnt their lesson along time ago. Then again, it seems they have their head so far up their arse, I think that they think they can do no wrong.

I just don't think they care.

I wonder how people play nids where FW or escalation&stroghold assault are played . It is one thing to know that dead synaps will cost you a game and try to protect them and another to know that it is impossible to protect them , no matter what you do .

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Blacksails wrote:The quality of a codex is not measured solely by how well it stands up next to the current power codex.

Exactly. You shouldn't be comparing new nids against tau, you should be comparing them against DA, SM, and CSM, which were done correctly (well, not fluffwise, but that's another matter). It's better that they make the game reasonably balanced and just fix the one or two codices that are overpowered, rather than forcing real codex creep where there wasn't before.

Okay...well the Tyranid codex is poor when compared to DA, SM, and CSM so what are you trying to say? The Tyranid codex is horribly balanced against itself, it has a slew of draw backs that aren't counter balanced by any kind of positive the two major ones being IB and Tervigons but the codex is full of similar points of data, it is boring and even more monolist than the last codex. The 5th codex wasn't received well and this new one didn't exactly shake things up so why on earth are people still harping on about waiting and seeing?

Well I have fun with the new codex but I agree on the internal balance problems. Its hard do build an effective list without some sort of spamming. But I have to live with that for the next 3 years. So why on earth are people still crying about the new nid-dex? As we all know, GW dont care about its customers so make the best out of it or play another army or game until the next codex release.

Because GW cares about money. We know they read forums and such because they have used things from this very forum in their FAQ. We also know that because they don't want new players googling "Tyranid codex review" and seeing only complaints.

There is nothing gained from being quiet.

 MephistonLoD wrote:

JPong wrote:
I just checked. The Tyranid Limited Edition codex is still in stock in Canada, though I can't see the numbers any more. Being completely unable to guess their next move, no one knows for sure (I don't think GW even knows) they might stop selling LE Codexes since this one didn't sell at all.

Seriously, I think this is the only one that didn't immediately sell out. And then they had the banner on the homepage of their website that had the number for like 2 weeks after. They still had like 25% left.

That's probably the only thing they will take away from this.

Though didn't the 3rd Chaos codex suck so bad they made 3.5? Or was it too powerful?

Too powerful.

You've got it wrong, it was made with the 3.5 update to the rules.

the 3E chaos codex was pretty much meh, the 3.5 is what everyone talks about.

MasterOfGaunts wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Blacksails wrote:The quality of a codex is not measured solely by how well it stands up next to the current power codex.

Exactly. You shouldn't be comparing new nids against tau, you should be comparing them against DA, SM, and CSM, which were done correctly (well, not fluffwise, but that's another matter). It's better that they make the game reasonably balanced and just fix the one or two codices that are overpowered, rather than forcing real codex creep where there wasn't before.

Okay...well the Tyranid codex is poor when compared to DA, SM, and CSM so what are you trying to say? The Tyranid codex is horribly balanced against itself, it has a slew of draw backs that aren't counter balanced by any kind of positive the two major ones being IB and Tervigons but the codex is full of similar points of data, it is boring and even more monolist than the last codex. The 5th codex wasn't received well and this new one didn't exactly shake things up so why on earth are people still harping on about waiting and seeing?

Well I have fun with the new codex but I agree on the internal balance problems. Its hard do build an effective list without some sort of spamming. But I have to live with that for the next 3 years. So why on earth are people still crying about the new nid-dex? As we all know, GW dont care about its customers so make the best out of it or play another army or game until the next codex release.

I don't really see many people whinning about it. Now if you think voicing complaints is whinning then there is nothing I can do to help you. People complain when something they do not like is forced upon them. I love Tyranids, I like 40k, I want to keep playing the game and I expect as a customer to be offered a quality product. GW delivered a hack job rush of a codex that seems to be made just to spite Chapter House and little else, so why on earth am I not allowed to be disappointed?