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I have a small Ork army. On some occasions it's possible I'm rolling 120 dice on an charge. Lot of dice. I picked up a dice rolling app for the iPhone, Wargame Dice. Generates dice throws, catered towards 40K,

You pick how many dice, adjust to what you need for a hit and bam! Hits are generated. Then move to wounds and the number of dice you hit with are already input, just adjust the generator for the number you need to make wounds and presto! Wounds allocated. Kinda convenient. There's also a scatter die generator. But I like the real one better.

What are your thoughts on this?

It was like $0.99 so not too expensive to break a budget. If you're an Ork player your gonna love this app. Hope your friends are cool with it too.

An interesting concept. However, anything but a recognizable and ubiquitous rolling app could be sort of suspect to strangers.

After all, who is to say it is random?

I for one love my cartoonishly large sack of dice i have to tote around when i play my orks. However i do understand the appeal of the dice apps. Most people at my flgs are pretty old school and frown at it. So big sak ' o die it is for me.

I have used and would be happy to use something like this again. At the end of the day, when there's 100+ dice being rolled (ork hordes, 20 Khorne Beserkers, 50 guardsmen with FRFSRF) then I'd rather simplify it and have it over quickly that gather up that many dice and release them all over the table where they can get knocked or hit models. Yes, you can do it in batches, but that takes ever longer.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
An interesting concept. However, anything but a recognizable and ubiquitous rolling app could be sort of suspect to strangers.

After all, who is to say it is random?

It's not random. And neither are dice.

Random number generators are governed by whatever randomization math they use, just like dice are governed by physics. Which is why Lt. Cmdr. Data was able to win so much money at the craps table in that one episode of Star Trek.

An ordinary human brain can't predict what will happen when you push the randomize button or roll the dice, but it's not random.

Shall we just say 'it's as close to random as makes no practical difference'?

Since, you know, we don't have any actual techpriests playing 40k...

Personally, though, I'll stick to my double handfuls of dice when boltering down the enemies of the Imperium.

 Pouncey wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
An interesting concept. However, anything but a recognizable and ubiquitous rolling app could be sort of suspect to strangers.

After all, who is to say it is random?

It's not random. And neither are dice.

Random number generators are governed by whatever randomization math they use, just like dice are governed by physics. Which is why Lt. Cmdr. Data was able to win so much money at the craps table in that one episode of Star Trek.

An ordinary human brain can't predict what will happen when you push the randomize button or roll the dice, but it's not random.

I was referring to the danger of an obscure, rigged program.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
An interesting concept. However, anything but a recognizable and ubiquitous rolling app could be sort of suspect to strangers.

After all, who is to say it is random?

It's not random. And neither are dice.

Random number generators are governed by whatever randomization math they use, just like dice are governed by physics. Which is why Lt. Cmdr. Data was able to win so much money at the craps table in that one episode of Star Trek.

An ordinary human brain can't predict what will happen when you push the randomize button or roll the dice, but it's not random.

I was referring to the danger of an obscure, rigged program.

Loaded dice?

I'm with Imotekh on this one. Your opponent has no way of knowing if the program is as random as it can be or if the one who wrote it decided it should hit more 6s just a few more times then it hits 1s. I think if you had "hot" dice on the app, it could easily feel like your opponent was cheated.

For something like this to actually work, you would need some sort of app sanctioned by GW. Even then though, source code can be edited.

Or, alternatively, you need to just both use the app.

I think it is part of the culture of the game. It would be like when they made the monopoly version with credit cards, it just didn't feel right.

While I am firmly old-school when it comes to rolling dice, I think it might be more than a bit paranoid that said Ork player went in and hacked the source code on a dice roller app to beat you at playing army men. If that would ping your radar about an opponent, you seriously need to rethink why you would ever play such a player in a game that can be so easily manipulated in far better and simpler ways.

It would be like worrying about whether your opponent had a custom-made tape measure made that has all the inches marked 1/4" longer so their shooting ranges are larger overall.


I think that when it comes to rolling 30-50+ dice, a dice roller app can save several minutes worth of watching your opponent sort through dice, lose count, and then have to recount.

For normal-sized amounts of dice, just use the real thing.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
While I am firmly old-school when it comes to rolling dice, I think it might be more than a bit paranoid that said Ork player went in and hacked the source code on a dice roller app to beat you at playing army men. If that would ping your radar about an opponent, you seriously need to rethink why you would ever play such a player in a game that can be so easily manipulated in far better and simpler ways.

It would be like worrying about whether your opponent had a custom-made tape measure made that has all the inches marked 1/4" longer so their shooting ranges are larger overall.


I think that when it comes to rolling 30-50+ dice, a dice roller app can save several minutes worth of watching your opponent sort through dice, lose count, and then have to recount.

For normal-sized amounts of dice, just use the real thing.

You never know, there are people who are waac so bad that they make anything to win, i don remember were i read about a kid, who obtain an obcene amount of 6´s in his throws, all the people in the store were they played was concern about this, later the kid confessed to another player that he, literally, coked the dices on some kind of oil, then the dices where more heavy on the face oposite of the six and then you get free rendings . Even on battlefield heroes, a free to play game, there are hackers that use hacks just to win in a free game, were you win nothing more than nothing
Lesson of the story: if you belive that sobody aint going to hack an app to win in a game, you´re gonna have some bad time

We've already got perfectly good ways to generate 'random' numbers. Spinner rings, phone apps, electronic keychain number generators, they're all right out. I won't use them, and I will not play against them. If an opponent lacks dice, they can borrow mine with no worries. If they refuse to use freely offered dice, then I will politely apologize and decline the game.

I think Dice are the best for varied results. Generators always seem to be a little odd in their randomization. A lot more crazy rolls and a lot more average rolls seem to be dont unlike dice who are spread out crazy. Dice generators follow math hammer more (if that makes sense).

Dice for me all the way.

You never know, there are people who are waac so bad that they make anything to win, i don remember were i read about a kid, who obtain an obcene amount of 6´s in his throws, all the people in the store were they played was concern about this, later the kid confessed to another player that he, literally, coked the dices on some kind of oil, then the dices where more heavy on the face oposite of the six and then you get free rendings . Even on battlefield heroes, a free to play game, there are hackers that use hacks just to win in a free game, were you win nothing more than nothing
Lesson of the story: if you belive that sobody aint going to hack an app to win in a game, you´re gonna have some bad time

Better lesson: If a player is gonna hack a dice roller app, it's pretty certain that there would have to be a veritable truckload of signs before it gets to that point that would tip you off that you should not be playing that person. Like, every single other way that people cheat at 40K.

I can see dice roller apps in extreme situations, but otherwise it ruins the "feel" of a tabletop game. Nowadays it's like nobody can do anything without their electronic talismans firmly in grasp.

The logic involved in dice rollers is mindbogglingly easy given the ATK.

I wrote this function in [R] (the statistical computing language). There are less complicated ways to do this, using more interesting native functions, but I left it this way for simplicity's sake. Below are a sample of 4 histograms of the produced data. As you can see, it more or less matches a uniform distribution given 4 trials of 1000 rolls each.








In short - why pay for an application that you can make easily, that has transparent code, that you can show your opponent to ensure that he knows that it's not malicious or biased in any way?

Nuggz, I think you're assuming more of my competence with math and computer code than is entirely reasonable.

Why in the grim feth are you not wanting to roll 120 dice?

Honestly, what is more fun than rolling so many dice you can't help but miss the table with some of them? Do you even have green skin?

If you pulled out a dice rolling app, it could be one I made myself and was perfectly certain wasn't rigged, and I'd say no. You roll the dice. They clatter on the board, we have a laugh when they fall off the table, we giggle at just how many 1's or 6's you rolled.

You insist on using your dice rolling program, and I say no. Period. End of story. If I wanted to play a video game I'd sit at home. I want to play a game, with physical pieces and physical randomizers. You should hand your teef off to the next Nob you see and wish him well, since your skin turned gretchiny.

An Ork that's "inconvenienced" by having to roll a mountain of dice? You're done with 40k, my friend.

 greatbigtree wrote:
Why in the grim feth are you not wanting to roll 120 dice?

Honestly, what is more fun than rolling so many dice you can't help but miss the table with some of them? Do you even have green skin?

If you pulled out a dice rolling app, it could be one I made myself and was perfectly certain wasn't rigged, and I'd say no. You roll the dice. They clatter on the board, we have a laugh when they fall off the table, we giggle at just how many 1's or 6's you rolled.

You insist on using your dice rolling program, and I say no. Period. End of story. If I wanted to play a video game I'd sit at home. I want to play a game, with physical pieces and physical randomizers. You should hand your teef off to the next Nob you see and wish him well, since your skin turned gretchiny.

An Ork that's "inconvenienced" by having to roll a mountain of dice? You're done with 40k, my friend.

Sorrt but I dont feel like knocking down half of the stuff on the board with my 4 blobs of 50 FRSRF guard that outflanked right into your face all rapid firing 150ish lasgun shots just to kill a squad of marines, I would rather use a dice app rather than spend a half hour getting 150 dice and rolling them on the table then hunting down all the stragglers and cocked dice etc then rolling those again and hunting down all the missed shots then letting the opponent confirm that they are all correct, then I have to grab all the dice and roll to wound repeating the same thing just with roughly half as many dice. Then repeat the same task 3 more times while having to make sure all the models and terrain are still in the right places. And no I dont want you to be rolling another 100ish dice 3 more times with your squads of biovores that just shot at my blobs and no I dont feel like repeating the same chore of gathering up a 100ish dice to roll for my overwatch just because your termagaunts feel like soaking up the overwatch for the flyrant because at that point I'm so tired of having to be hunched over looking for dice making sure everythings good etc. Im about ready to go home because its getting dark and dont am getting irritated that I have to be made severely uncomfortable and waste far too much time when all I can do is just bust out the dice app on battlescribe and get the whole mundane task turned into a quick overview that wont be me having fun with dice until it comes to around the 30ish number because anymore and it gets too uncomfortable and begins to feel like a chore. [/unnecessary rant]

Get a dice box to roll in and everything is solved. No cocked dice, no missing dice, and no destruction of models. (not that I have had these problems). Dice box solves most of all your problems except lazyness (that last bit was a joke )

 Swastakowey wrote:
Get a dice box to roll in and everything is solved. No cocked dice, no missing dice, and no destruction of models. (not that I have had these problems). Dice box solves most of all your problems except lazyness (that last bit was a joke )

It still requires me to gather up a bucket load of dice every time my 4 blobs shoot, promptly turn the bottom of my shirt into a pouch like a kangaroo to hold all the dice, and then make sure the box is big enough so none of the dice are stuck on top of each other constantly. Plus, if I am already going through the effort to make me rolling 100+ dice easier I might as well use the app to make it not an inconvenience at all.

Actually, when it comes to rolling mass quantities of dice, most of the "wierd" behavior of computer-aided dice rolls gets evened out. It's far more noticeable/suspicious when your opponent virtually rolls three sixes in a row than when those three sixes are included in 117 other rolls which came out to be other numbers.

I'd be okay with it in friendly games, but would probably want the dice for a tournament.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
I have a small Ork army. On some occasions it's possible I'm rolling 120 dice on an charge. Lot of dice. I picked up a dice rolling app for the iPhone, Wargame Dice. Generates dice throws, catered towards 40K,

If you use dice, your opponent can ask to borrow them. This is an easy way to ensure that you're dice are fair.

Now give your phone to your opponent so that they can make all of their rolls the same way you're making yours. This is an easy way to ensure that the mechanism is fair.

You do want to be fair, right? And, no, asking them to get their own copy of the app isn't the same. Because this is about ensuring that what you're using is fair.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I think Dice are the best for varied results. Generators always seem to be a little odd in their randomization. A lot more crazy rolls and a lot more average rolls seem to be dont unlike dice who are spread out crazy. Dice generators follow math hammer more (if that makes sense).

You think that, but you are simply wrong. A dice rolling program (at least one designed by anyone with any skill at all) is exactly the same as dice. In fact the randomization on a dice program will be better than real dice because it won't suffer from manufacturing defects that make real dice less than ideally random. If you think you're getting different results from the software then you're just suffering from confirmation bias.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 solkan wrote:
Now give your phone to your opponent so that they can make all of their rolls the same way you're making yours. This is an easy way to ensure that the mechanism is fair.

Not really. If I wanted to cheat I could easily make the cheating only work for me (secret buttons, etc), or even make your rolls worse than average. But then, as someone said already, if you're trying that hard to cheat in a silly game you're going to find some way of cheating no matter what tools are available. You might as well just enjoy the game and if someone is that pathetic, well, that's their problem.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
I think Dice are the best for varied results. Generators always seem to be a little odd in their randomization. A lot more crazy rolls and a lot more average rolls seem to be dont unlike dice who are spread out crazy. Dice generators follow math hammer more (if that makes sense).

You think that, but you are simply wrong. A dice rolling program (at least one designed by anyone with any skill at all) is exactly the same as dice. In fact the randomization on a dice program will be better than real dice because it won't suffer from manufacturing defects that make real dice less than ideally random. If you think you're getting different results from the software then you're just suffering from confirmation bias.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 solkan wrote:
Now give your phone to your opponent so that they can make all of their rolls the same way you're making yours. This is an easy way to ensure that the mechanism is fair.

Not really. If I wanted to cheat I could easily make the cheating only work for me (secret buttons, etc), or even make your rolls worse than average. But then, as someone said already, if you're trying that hard to cheat in a silly game you're going to find some way of cheating no matter what tools are available. You might as well just enjoy the game and if someone is that pathetic, well, that's their problem.

they arent the same as dice, I run many role plays and for a while we used generated dice and it was always resulting in heaps of critical success and failures, sometimes it was more expected other times it was not. It was random but in a unusual way which didnt lead to very interesting experiences. Maybe we only used crappy ones, maybe not, dice have always led to better games and the rolls werent ever 7 rolls of 3 in a row and so forth. Dice may not be "perfect"but at least they have varied results. At the end of the day its up to me if I play against apps or dice so like everyone else, for whatever reason, have made a choice.

Plus dice looks better and i think dice should always be part of gaming, but I did try electronic dice first up but moved on when I (like everyone I know) moved on to classic dice.

 Swastakowey wrote:
they arent the same as dice

Yes they are. You are simply wrong about this.

I run many role plays and for a while we used generated dice and it was always resulting in heaps of critical success and failures, sometimes it was more expected other times it was not.

Confirmation bias.

and the rolls werent ever 7 rolls of 3 in a row and so forth

That sounds like bad software. Don't blame the concept of dice software because you got a program made by an incompetent moron who can't even figure out how to use the random() function.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
they arent the same as dice

Yes they are. You are simply wrong about this.

I run many role plays and for a while we used generated dice and it was always resulting in heaps of critical success and failures, sometimes it was more expected other times it was not.

Confirmation bias.

and the rolls werent ever 7 rolls of 3 in a row and so forth

That sounds like bad software. Don't blame the concept of dice software because you got a program made by an incompetent moron who can't even figure out how to use the random() function.

Iim happy being biased then. Because when im biased im right. And I don't ponder the wonders of the code for random outcomes so it doesn't bother me. So from experience dice apps are bad and your wrong (insert more bias here) further proving im right and your not.

 Pouncey wrote:


It's not random. And neither are dice.

Random number generators are governed by whatever randomization math they use, just like dice are governed by physics. Which is why Lt. Cmdr. Data was able to win so much money at the craps table in that one episode of Star Trek.

An ordinary human brain can't predict what will happen when you push the randomize button or roll the dice, but it's not random.

Ummm yes dice are random to many variables for it not to be random. You will never roll the dice the exact same way or land them on the table or hit the other dice the exact same way so yes they are random.
We can predict what will happen....1/6th chance it will hit 1,1/6th chance it will hit 2, 1/6th chance it will hit 3, 1/6th chance it will hit 4, 1/6th chance it will hit 5 or 1/6th chance it will hit 6 pretty predictable but still random all the way.

All I want is an app for the scatter dice. Or some kind of laserpointer dreidel... Dice are dice, we need a solution for that "hit arrow".

Back on topic: I would not mind it in friendly games, Tournaments? Not so much.