Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

While everybody is talking about grav weaponry and Centurion Devastators these days, the Assault Centurions seem to often get overlooked. Let is compare them to TH/SS Assault terminators, shall we? An Assault Centurion is 15 points costlier than an Assault Terminator with TH/SS. He doesn't have the 3+ invulnerable save, cannot teleport, and is very bulky instead of bulky. The first two are major drawbacks and make the already costlier Assault Centurions even more expensive by having to rely on a transport to get to the other side of the board, while Assault Terminators arrive there usually on a 3+ on turn 2. However, these are the strengths of the Assault Centurion: First off, they are Strength and Toughness 5. The strength value is utterly irrelevant unless you have to take a strength test; it's the toughness value that's the important bit here. Tau Plasma Rifles are wounding these guys on a 3+, not on a 2+ now. So that's less wounds being dealt than what Assault Terminators are receiving. More importantly, it makes them more resilient to small arms fire. Then, you have the 2 wounds per model instead of 1. This makes it all the more arduous to bring down an Assault Centurion squad with massed small arms fire than it is to bring down an Assault Terminator squad likewise - all you need to do is make the SM player roll a couple of 1s and his Assault Terminator squad will rapidly evaporate. The Centurions are more resilient in this case, both due to the extra wound, and due to T5. Of course, Demolisher Cannons make Assault Centurions sad. Very sad, as they don't even have an invulnerable save and unlike Centurion Devastators, wont be hiding behind cover.

That being said, let's take a look at their ranged weaponry - unlike Assault Terminators, Assault Centurions posses quite a bit of dakka. Each of them comes with a twin-linked flamer, but because they cannot deep strike, the chance of getting lucky and covering 8-10 enemy models is slim. They also cannot use these in Overwatch as they have the Slow And Purposeful USR. Slow and Purposeful also means they cannot Run, and to top it all off, just like models in terminator armor they cannot perform sweeping advances. So the Assault Centurions are severely hampered in their effectiveness, and because firing your flamers at a squad you are about to assault is a stupid thing to do anyway in 6th edition, with the wound allocation rules and everything, these weapons are counter-productive. They can swap them for twin-linked meltaguns for extra points, but these are short ranged and getting Assault Centurions that close to a tank is difficult. Finally, let's take a look at their close combat prowess - Assault Centurions have 1 attack each, but are armed with two siege drills, so they get +1 attack for wielding two specialist weapons. This makes them on par with Assault Terminators in terms of attacks per model. Except that their weapons own thunderhammers by a long stretch: not only are the siege drills Strength 9 and share the concussive special rule, they also roll 2D6 for armor penetration, making them the perfect blend of thunderhammer and chainfist with +1S added. But here's where the real magic lies: the Siege drills are not unwieldy. They do not strike at Initiative 1, yep, you heard right. Unlike Assault Terminators, Assault Centurions fight at normal initiative. And they come with assault grenades to boot, so they can comfortably charge into models behind cover. Not that this would matter to TH/SS Assault Termies anyway, as they always strike at Initiative 1. Still, this means you can carry your Assault Centurions into battle in a Phobos/Godhammer pattern Land Raider (why you would want to do that is beyond me...alright, you can move 6" and fire both TL-Lascannons at two different targets, but then the Assault Centurions are no faster than if they were on foot, and paying 250 points to protect them from enemy fire isn't really constructive to begin with) and still have them assault into cover and strike at normal initiative. You can swap the ironclad assault launchers for a hurricane bolter system on each Assault Centurion for free, but the tactic of having one guy keep the assault launchers while the others swap theirs for the Hurricane Bolter doesn't do what you think it does, as being equipped with assault grenades only works on a per-model basis, so only the guy with the ironclad assault launchers would then benefit from assault grenades when the squad charges into cover.

Either way, the point is, that for 190 points you are purchasing a squad equivalent to a monstrous creature with T5, W6, 2+ save and 10 S9 attacks on charge at Initiative 4 that have armorbane accompanied by either 3 tl-meltaguns or 3 tl-flamers AND 3 hurricane bolters or assault grenades. If you drive them up to the enemy in a Redeemer or Crusader, they can take the Hurricane Bolters and still receive an assault grenades bonus the time they assault out of the LR, quasi "on the house". While Assault Centurions definitely aren't as independent and self-reliant as Assault Terminators, they are actually cheaper as a squad, but will make prime targets for low AP fire. Use with caution. Preferably get them into battle in a Land Raider (assault vehicle). At least they need it far more than the terminators do. You might also want to stick a Chaplain with them so they can re-roll failed hits on charge and become fearless, and it also gives the unit a nice way of tanking AP2 shots or hits in CC thanks to the chappy's default 4++ inv save. It also makes the unit far more useful against non-character MCs in close combat as now the Chaplain (with Shield Eternal, or even better - Armor Indomitus) can tank wounds while the Assault Centurions can proceed to hit back without taking too much damage.

They have move though cover too don't they? One thing I've seen suggested with them is to use a storm raven as the delivery mechanism, and have them skies of fury near the target. MTC means no dangerous terrain test for being kicked out the back of the storm raven.

Of course, still an extremely dangerous idea if your opponent has interceptor

nobody wrote:
They have move though cover too don't they? One thing I've seen suggested with them is to use a storm raven as the delivery mechanism, and have them skies of fury near the target. MTC means no dangerous terrain test for being kicked out the back of the storm raven.

Thats a valid point, but it still leaves them unable to assault and one turn prone to getting shot up, something that for example doesnt happen if they assault out of a land raider.

True, generally I see it suggested as a method of diversion, as now you opponent needs to repurpose units to deal with them on later turns, and if they don't you can start munching through their backfield support.

Tha being said, personally If I did run assault centurions it'd be with some kind of librarian with the hope of having either forewarning or invisibility. My ideal would be a DA libby with the pfg, but there's no real easy way of delivering them up the table.

An alternative may be to hold them as a counter assault unit against chaos or nids, but this is the wrong edition to worry about that...

nobody wrote:
They have move though cover too don't they? One thing I've seen suggested with them is to use a storm raven as the delivery mechanism, and have them skies of fury near the target. MTC means no dangerous terrain test for being kicked out the back of the storm raven.

Of course, still an extremely dangerous idea if your opponent has interceptor

For the most part reserving assault troops is a mistake. You are looking at a turn 3 assault in a best case scenario, most likely later. If you want Cents in a raven, go with the shooty ones. Zoom, jump, blam!

Assault cents do hit harder the TH/SS terminators, but aren’t nearly as tough. If they are ever caught in the open, all it takes is a moderate amount of AP2 fire to erase them. Despite the name, I think a better comparison for them would be tactical terminators. Mediocre shooting, some nice CC abilities including armorbane, elite slot.

It’s the need for a delivery system that gets me. You can’t walk across the table. S&P with no cover, no invuln. Just not a good idea. So you need an armored box. But anything that can hold you doesn’t have firing ports, so the fact that you have guns is a little irrelevant. And if you shoot the target you want to charge, there is a very good chance you won’t make the distance to need on the charge, due to killing everyone close. And then you are stuck in the open.

What kind of targets do you want to charge? Nothing that has AP2 weapons, that’s for sure. Which means you aren’t using the cents as a counter-deathstar or MC killing, roles TH/SS termies often fill. So you end up with a ~500 point box of close combat death to kill troops and other non-CC specialists? There are more point efficient ways of doing that.

Assault centurions are trying to fill a role that is already pretty well set. What they bring (shooting, armorbane, striking at initiative) doesn’t bring enough to the table to dethrone the unit already doing the job.

Nevelon hit the nail square on the head. Every advantage that the assault centurion has over assault terminators becomes irrelevant quickly. Assault terminators are feared because they can reliably shrug off a decent amount of AP1/2. Their resilience is their strength not their ability in CC. If you want to cause massive amounts of low ap wounds then plasma command squads will work. Or how about bike command squads with grav guns? Honestly I don't think CC is a strength of our new dex. If that is the route you want to go then I strongly suggest you look at a tooled up honor guard squad. Not very competitive. But there aren't any really competitive cc options anywhere else in the codex either (aside from the uber CM on a bike loadout).

I agree with Nevelon, I just don't see Centurion Assault Squads doing a TH/SS Terminator job as well.

However...

Looking back at the entry, I did notice something interesting when OP mentioned the dakka-ness. The Seargent can take the Omniscope, giving them Night Vision and Split Fire.

Split Fire has some nice implications - if you can pass a Ld test, you could a) melta two different tanks, b) flame two different squads, or c) actually make use of a hybrid loadout and do one of each. Well, more specifically, one of one, and the rest of the other.

So again, it comes down to delivery system (none, bar 200+ point vehicles), and the fact that assault is always a gamble plus killing your charge target in the shooting phase is decreasing your chances of making that charge gamble...

But, say everything went perfectly... Stormraven zooms in, unloads them in the middle of the enemy tank line, loaded out for Infantry killing, it softens up the LZ, they split meltas into the backs of tanks, the sarge kills an MBT, and the other two pop a transport. Then, you charge the passengers and dance like a madman.

They're not bad in assault. Assault's just bad on the whole if u're not fast enough. And they're definitely not fast and you need to sink a hell lot of points to deliver them. And here they are! 3-4 Brave cents that cost you 450+ pts including a ride. What do you want to kill with them? They look like meganobz except for their delivery system is much more expensive.

Assault Cents are built to smash buildings. They cannot run away, and not many units can do that job well.
With the amount of bunkers and huge guns on the way with IG and Stronghold Assault, these are the best bet.

 Skinnereal wrote:
Assault Cents are built to smash buildings. They cannot run away, and not many units can do that job well.
With the amount of bunkers and huge guns on the way with IG and Stronghold Assault, these are the best bet.

Tactical terminators with a chainfist or two can also do that job. But they can also DS next to the building and come with a 5++. They might have a little more trouble with the AV15 massive fortifications, but enough chainfists will bring those down as well. You would just need more then the 1 I normally include in the squad.

It’s not that the assault cents can’t do anything. They do crush tanks/buildings, they are very resistant to small arms. But they are only good vs. a narrow band of things, and their drawbacks are easy to exploit and expensive to mitigate.