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Hi, I'm trying to understand the point of breaking down a 10 man squad into two 5 mans using the Combat Squads Special Rule. This specific example is a 10 man tactical squad. Doesn't it just give someone a better chance for first blood? Is the advantage to shoot at different targets? Thanks.

Two scoring units for the price of one

JubbJubbz wrote:
Two scoring units for the price of one

Exactly, allows for more flexibility. I wish my Grey Hunters could do it!

JubbJubbz wrote:
Two scoring units for the price of one

Would you be able to provide an example? Does it have to do with objectives in some cases and having two units with the ability to move around?

You have 2 objectives to hold and only one tactical squad. The squad gets to split up therefore holding both.

MarsNZ wrote:
You have 2 objectives to hold and only one tactical squad. The squad gets to split up therefore holding both.

That confirms what I was thinking. Thanks!

Example A: In a tournament, the first game is a mission with 5 objectives. I break all my units down into tactical squads, to double the number of scoring units I have, as well as generate some serious target priority confusion. In other games (say, Kill Point games) I can opt not to combat squad, in order to present fewer points to the enemy.

Example B: This I can speak to from personal experience. As a Drop Pod player, combat squads are the best thing since sliced bread. When two units are working in concert, combat squads can often end both of them at the same time. A common tactic to oppose Drop Pods is to 'bubblewrap' vehicles (or to surround them with a thin shield of expendable troops in order to gain a cover save). The combat squads can come out of the pod, with one of them killing off the bubble wrap, leaving a clear lane of fire to the vehicle from the second squad. Optionally, if attacking a transport, the first squad can blow up the vehicle while the second squad massacres the inhabitants. When getting out of dedicated transports, one combat squad can also run defense for the other (usually containing a special/heavy weapon) in order to shield the more valuable squad from armor-penning weaponry.

There are other advantages.

Let's say you're looking at 2 dire avengers, and you have 10 marines in a single squad, and you need to kill those avengers as a priority. You have to fire the entire squad at them, probably wasting firepower. With them split in two, you can fire just 5, see if it kills them, and then either fire the next 5 to finish them if needed, or fire them at something else entirely (especially valuable so as not to waste a heavy or special weapon shot).

Or, you're about to be charged by something that will probably kill say, 7 marines in combat. With a 10 man squad this is bad, because your opponent will be stuck in combat, safe from shooting, and will wipe you out in your turn, leaving them free to charge another of your units. With 5 man units, you could feed him one unit that gets destroyed in one turn and then shoot them in your own turn.

It generally adds flexibility. There are downsides of course, you might WANT to bog a unit down in combat. Combat squads give up kill points, if that is in your mission objectives. Having full ten man squads lets you benefit more from buffs that affect a single unit.

It's not supposed to be something you always, definitely want to do. It's a strategic option you have to judge for yourself whether it will be worth it in this particular game against this particular opponent.

It also allows you to split weapons...with my interceptors I always throw one unit of 5 with just the hammer in the squad...and the other 5 get the 2 psycannons.

This is also a common tactic for razors...buy 10 guys and put five with a melts/plasma in the razor...and put the other 5 in cover with a missile launcher

Also the ability to leave half the squad and the heavy weapon in cover near an objective in your deployment zone while the other half heads up the field with the special weapon in their rhino or razorback to do some damage and seize an objective. That way you don't have to worry about snap shooting the heavy weapon by moving the squad and don't have to worry about slowing down the squad to use the heavy weapon.

Jefffar wrote:
Also the ability to leave half the squad and the heavy weapon in cover near an objective in your deployment zone while the other half heads up the field with the special weapon in their rhino or razorback to do some damage and seize an objective. That way you don't have to worry about snap shooting the heavy weapon by moving the squad and don't have to worry about slowing down the squad to use the heavy weapon.

Son, you just got ninja'd.

I prefer to think of it as confirming our mutual brilliance.

Jefffar wrote:
I prefer to think of it as confirming our mutual brilliance.

Well said fellow mastermind.

Wow...someone actually thinking combat squads is useless?

Its perhaps the most OP generic-army ability in the game.

"Killpoints? meh, i got a few big teams. no killpoints? sure-i got ALOT of small teams-and I choose AFTER seeing the mission"

ANYONE would want this, even tau would kill for it, and while it would render our markerlights far less effective-it would still be worth it.

too bad tactical marine squads suck.

Tactical marines... what's the point?

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
too bad tactical marine squads suck.

Fortunately, you can combat squad Bikes, Assault Marines, Sternguards, Scouts, Terminators, etc.

The point is two things:


1) You only occupy 1 Troops slot rather than 2 and can still field two 5 man independent squads, i.e. 2 scoring units from that 1 occupied slot. In larger games this allows you for example to field upto 12 scoring units rather than 6.

2) flexibility - in a game where it is not about objectives, but rather about KP, you can choose to not split them and thus create less potential KPs in your army.

Also, everything what Cryogen said.

I think combat squading is great, especially with sternguard.

The only benefit of combat squadding Troops is, that they can share a dedicated Transport. If they dont share a Transport it would be better to buy a second squad and get another seargent.

But on every other Slot than troops it Comes in quite handy. You can have up to 6 elite squads instead of 3. And as everybody mentioned before MSU is a benefit most of the times, especially on marines with ATSKNF.

this is an obvious advantage that you dont have to take.

you can split your shooting up more

you can capture 2 OBJ. instead of 1

you can probably do more stuff.....

they share transport then disembark and surround enemies at different points

distracting the player with lotsa stuff

stop orks from charging at bigger grps of your army getting your other blokes to run away

Sniper scouts with cammo cloaks benefit quite well from it. Firstly you can actually put them ON two different objectives outside your deployment zone before the game has even begun, secondly, the opponent has to waste firepower on models with a 3+ (or 2+ with techmarine) cover save. The way around this is to flame or assault the squads - they can't do this as well if the 2 squads are on opposite ends of the board to one another.
BA assault squads - combat squad them with the specials in one squad and the sarge in another. The special squad can go tank hunting/teq or meq hunting/flaming, whilst the sarge and squad gets stuck in.
Sternies in pods and tacs in razors have already been mentioned.
Also bear in mind for space marines, small squads is not crippling due to ATSKNF.

Given that some say Marines' 3+ saving throw can be useless, couldn't it waste the enemy's firepower too?

Like, 3 squads capable of kiling 3-4 marines reliably, couldn't wipe out both halves for example?

The best way to run drop pods was combat squad in one, with an HQ or 2 in there too.
Not any more though, as transports are now 10-man, not 12 :(

But yeah, as above.
Tactical squad's heavy weapon left to guard the objective, and the serg and special weapon in a Razorback up-field.

 Skinnereal wrote:
The best way to run drop pods was combat squad in one, with an HQ or 2 in there too.
Not any more though, as transports are now 10-man, not 12 :(

But yeah, as above.
Tactical squad's heavy weapon left to guard the objective, and the serg and special weapon in a Razorback up-field.

The problem with this set up is that it wastes four bolter marines that can't afford to be wasted.

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it but it also saves you a few points over 2 five man squads (one less Sergeant) along with bringing the flexibility to keep them together if you want.

Martel732 wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
Tactical squad's heavy weapon left to guard the objective, and the serg and special weapon in a Razorback up-field.

The problem with this set up is that it wastes four bolter marines that can't afford to be wasted.

Dev squads aren't usually scoring, and those 4 bolters might be enough to deter anyone thinking of assaulting them.

 Skinnereal wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
Tactical squad's heavy weapon left to guard the objective, and the serg and special weapon in a Razorback up-field.

The problem with this set up is that it wastes four bolter marines that can't afford to be wasted.

Dev squads aren't usually scoring, and those 4 bolters might be enough to deter anyone thinking of assaulting them.

Who's afraid of bolters? Seriously?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Who's afraid of bolters? Seriously?

Only people facing DA Bikes...and even then...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Who's afraid of bolters? Seriously?

Yeah, I suppose.

But, if there's just a straggler or 2 of a squad out that way anyway, they're more likely to assault a Dev squad with heavies and pistols than a 4-man bolter squad.
The same with an HQ choice who happened by, but isn't great in cc.

If something that would kill 6 or more marines shoots at my squad, they only kill 5. If something kills 4 marines but he wants to finish off the squad, he has to dedicate another entire squad at shooting otherwise the lone marine will rally and dick about on an objective or force squads to waste their overwatch.