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This is something that has been developing in my mind for a while now. I have never really understood why a person would identify with one of the lesser chapters until I realize the true difference between Ultramarine Successors and the Successors of other chapters.

The Ultramarines are not perfect (no human or Astartes is), but here goes one of my better explanations for why people are drawn to the Ultramarines.

Beginning of transmission"

Ultramarines are by far the best call, with Imperial Fists or Raptors being the next best.

Think about it though, an Ultramarine would have come from Ultramar, which is pretty much the most normal and prosperous region in the Imperium. An Ultramarine would have had a relatively normal family and a good upbringing in a place where the dream of the Imperium was fully realized. Other Marines are largely from depressing, derelict, savage hell holes and are psychologically messed up right down to their cores. Most other Marines aren't really fighting for anything other than a Chapter Ideology or for the love of fighting and killing itself.

An Ultramarine will leave Ultramar and fight far and wide and they will be exposed to all the hellish ugliness that exists in the universe and they will always remember that out there somewhere is a place worth fighting for, a reality that they can bring to fruition with their own hands and deeds.

Coming from Ultramar, an Ultramarine knows for a fact that they, as Space Marines, are a literal hard line that stands between all that is good and all that is evil. That's why they are so brutally meticulous.

It's cool if other chapters want to play around at being Timmy Tough-asses and seeing who can be a bigger crazier drunken brawler or a more flesh hating hard ass or a better secret keeping-former brother hunting-rock in space living Marine, because these types of Marines are useful to the Imperium in a smaller and more specialized way.

Ultramarines, however, get things done. They know that the only thing standing between light and darkness is they themselves. That is what creates their sense of urgency and why they spend every ounce of their time and energy on absolute perfection in their training and preparation. They do not have time to waste in trying to prove that they are wild tough guys, or to worry about their dead primarch, or seek vengeance for some event in the past. They only have time to prepare for the next challenge....... for the next cry for help that rings out in the Astronomican.

Ultramarines leave specialization and being a unique (angry) little butterfly for the children.

I'm not denying that other forces and Chapters provide an important service to the Imperium, but if you were to think of the defenders of the Imperium as a human body, the Ultramarines are the brain and the skeletal system upon which everything else is built and based.

End of"

Plenty of other Chapters are pretty cool, and would be fun to be a part of, and even the Guard has parts that make it appealing, but the Ultramarines and its close successors are a different breed. Even amongst Astartes.

How could you not be an Ultramarine? What drove you to seek refuge with a lesser chapter?

This thread is going to get rather interesting.

Don't forget that nobility in the Ultramar domain is greatly enhanced if you can point at a portrait on the wall and say "that's great-great-grand-uncle Verus who joined the Ultramarines". Every last inbred noble family tries to get a scion through the screenings whenever the UM recruit, and the Chapter accepts some of them just to keep them happy.

Why do you think they don't live as long as other marines? Their genetech largely goes to covering up the effects of having too few great-grandparents.

Well, I'm not a primary Marines player, but here's why I chose the Marines that I did;

We had a duty. We were the wardens of a tear in space. We were at the forefront of the battle against the evils of Chaos. Our duty held us strongly, gripped us with purpose. So great was the threat our charge posed that two other Chapters were set against it. Together, we were the Maelstrom Wardens, a powerful bulwark against the renegade - and worse.

Ootheca, our home, wasn't the greatest world of the Imperium, but it was ours. Then the tithe ships came to neighbouring Badab. Our dear friends, the Astral Claws, were held ransom by fiends posing as the Adeptus Terra. They protected themselves, and again from more strikes. Then a strike at our hearts- the Fire Hawks attacked our home system without warning or offer of parlay. We had been betrayed by the very Imperium we had sacrificed so much to protect.

More came, and more. We held them at bay, bouyed by the assistance of the other Maelstrom Warders and the Astral Claws' debt-allies, the Executioners. We suffered for our honour, our ancient alliances, but we persevered. We struck. We hunted.

All for nothing. Though it was the Fire Hawks' incompetence that had pulled us into this war, it was the perfidy - the outright duplicity - of our supposed friend Huron that had begat it.

Once, we were the thin green line between the Maelstrom and the Imperium. Now, we are reduced to penitent scraps. We were heroes, now we struggle to earn forgiveness for the crime of holding honour above duty.

We are the Mantis Warriors, and we will not make the same mistake again.

As my title I play Space Wolves and here is why I chose to be a son of Fenrir

I was choosen by the Rune priests to join the sky warriors in Asaheim, there my body and mind was enhanced and the wild urges for bloodshed temperd into cold burning hatred by my new pack.
I was clad in war plate and gifted with both bolter and axe, and thus I left my old home world behind to ply the stars and bring the fury of Russ down upon the happless heretics and xenos that infest the galaxy.
But it is not only from without our foes comes.....Even from he ranks of the Imperium comes those whom seeks our demise! But let them all come, not one weak willed fool will set foot in the Fang while even a single wolf draws breath!

 UltraTacSgt wrote:
-snip-

We also know that Ultramarines suffer from crippling stupidity and adhere religiously to the Codex, to the point that they execute/send on a suicide mission anyone who deviates from it heavily. Ventris for example deviated massively from the Codex in order to save his company and ensure some of their number survived, protect a planet, and fight off what IIRC was a hive splinter fleet. He was rewarded by being sent on a suicidal penitent crusade with one other guy into the Eye of Terror, resulting from a horribly stupid kangaroo court.

If anything, the Ultramarines are one of the most backwater chapters, fetishizing the codex, making them also incredibly vulnerable to competent enemies fully out-maneuvering them on combat by knowing exactly how they'll think. The only remarkable thing about the Ultramarine is the resources they command, as the only reason why they've even survived for ten millennium is logistics (primarily their fleet), and certainly not skill in combat or proper command of their own forces. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of Chaos Space Marine renegades resulted from derpy Ultramarines and their descendents sending small squads on suicide missions into the eye of terror as punishment, not realizing that they're just as likely to grow a brain and join the Black Legion rather than continue to serve the flying rodent gak insane Chapter.

Hell, Ultramarines and descending Chapters that fetishize the Codex are so easy to protect that a single Alpha Legionnaire supported by a Black Legion warband completely wiped out a whole Chapter of a thousand marines in one fell swoop. The only good thing about the Ultramarines and their descendents is that they at least serve as the PDF of Space marines to serve as a giant buffer against invading Tyranids and soak up casualties they can easily replace. Meanwhile, the Sons of Dorn are busy fighting this extremely dangerous enemy known as 'Chaos'.

Nah, Ventris deserved to be sent on that crusade because of what happened with the Nightbringer.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nah, Ventris deserved to be sent on that crusade because of what happened with the Nightbringer.

Ventris may be a dick, but Cato Sicarus is one to talk.

Well here's why I chose my homeless chapter:
Once, we were among the mightiest of the emperor's warriors. We guarded the eye of terror with mind body and soul, we were the immortal knights. But then, the whisperings of chaos changed some of us. On the eve of battle, they attacked us from behind, over half of us dead or turned. We fled that day, never again. We are the forsaken knights, and we will have our vengeance, the dead of mortalis will be avenged, and then we will join the emperor, lest the corruption of chaos spread from our history and into our future.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nah, Ventris deserved to be sent on that crusade because of what happened with the Nightbringer.

Ventris may be a dick, but Cato Sicarus is one to talk.

There's being a dick, then there's putting your own life above the lives of entire Imperial star systems.

You know what the last guy who did that was called?

Horus.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I personally don't see the Codex Astartes as a book saying "If charged by Eldar, you MUST charge back." (for example). I see it as a guideline, a handy source of advice, not a cookbook. So in the aforementioned scenario, it would say, "Eldar are vulnerable to countercharges." Also, I would like to see instances of this "Stupidity" by following the Codex. Just my two bolter shells.

Ventris and Pasanius were not sent on their Penitent Crusade because they deviated from the Codex, they were sent on it because they disobeyed orders. As a Captain, Ventris answers to one person overall, Marneus Calgar. Who's orders he disobeyed! There was already a squad of Deathwatch ready to strike, and should they have needed reinforcements, Ventris could've sent up a fraction of his own forces. And Space Marines are indoctrinated to "Die in the name of the Emperor". Why should going on a Pentinent Crusade change that? A truly loyal Space Marine should go on a Crusade seeking death or to redeem himself in the eyes of his peers. Only a flawed Astartes would turn renegade in this situation, thus not accounting for the vast majority of Ultramarines (whose geneseed is proven over and over to be one of the most, if not the most, stable in the galaxy!).

Not every Space Marine chapter can be a glorified werewolf Viking, or a raging Vampire, or a bike riding Mongol, or a flesh-hater with a metal fetish. The descendants of the Ultramarines are the bread and butter Chapters, the paragons of normality, but are they any less important? They far outnumber the amount of any other Chapter's descendants. Every Space Marine Chapter is a valuable asset, capable of bringing ruin to whole star systems. The Astral Knights took out a giant Necron planet-ship, saving a whole sector from destruction, at the cost of their lives. And someone has to stop the Tyranid threat and the Tau Menace (?). Where would your precious Son's of Dorn be if there were no Ultramarines or their successors? In the bellies of Hive Ships. And there are Ultramarine descendants located near the Eye of Terror, fighting Chaos. There were Ultramarine descendants fighting in the Badab War, and IIRC, a Ultramarines Honour Company was deployed to fight in the Thirteenth Black Crusade.

I'm not putting down the Ultramarines in general. Just Ventris.

Ventris was a bad Ultramarine. He put his life above his duty (Nightbringer incident). He put his personal glory above his duty (Tyranid incident). I gave up after that point.

Now a TRUE Ultramarine would be...
**drumroll**
Captain Titus! Now that, guys and gals, is an Ultramarine.

Death to the smurfs!
The arrogance and stupidity of the overly dogmatic Ultramarines ensures that they are far from being the best chapter and it severely impedes their combat effectiveness.
(Also, Ultramar is probably the worst hellhole in the Imperium and the Ultramarines saying otherwise is just propaganda to make themselves look good )
On the other hand, if Ultramar is indeed such a neat place, it means that it's people are softer and weaker and make for less powerful warriors and survivors than people from a death world.
Also, compared to the Salamanders, the Ultramarines are ruthless, opressive dictators.
The Salamanders truly are the best of all Astartes.
In short; the Ultramarines are arrogant dogmatic dicks who are completely full of themselves, which is why so many people dislike them. The Ultramarines are far from being the best chapter. They have some very serious issues.

 UltraTacSgt wrote:
Stuff

Yes. Yes to all of it.

Furyou Miko wrote:Nah, Ventris deserved to be sent on that crusade because of what happened with the Nightbringer.

No he deserved death, consorting with a Xeno and generaly being a useless whiner

Sgt_Smudge wrote:Now a TRUE Ultramarine would be...
**drumroll**
Captain Titus! Now that, guys and gals, is an Ultramarine.

If you mean all Ultra marines should aspire to unleash a hoard of traitors onto a forgeworld I have bad news for you and your codex humping friends.

To be fair, he had no idea the Psychic Scourge was corrupy and did it under Inquisitor Drogan's orders, who is an INQUISITOR and should be obeyed by everyone under him, including Captains of the Adeptus Astartes. But you're a Space Wolf, you wouldn't understand Inquisitorial Authority.

Ultramarines are popular because they're normal. They're like soldiers, they obey combat doctrine. Not all Ultramarines do this, however (Titus, what a guy), and those guys are probably the best of the Ultramarines.
Whoever said that the Ultramarines have the purest Geneseed, so do the Imperial Fists. There's nothing wrong with their geneseed and they're the progenitors to the largest chapter to have ever existed, the Black Templars, and they don't seem to have any problems whereas the Fire Hawks (rumored UM successor) burst into flames IIRC. Or that might have been the Flame Falcons...

IIRC, the UM, IF and DA have equall rates of corruption, something like 10% chance of corruption.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Whoever said that the Ultramarines have the purest Geneseed, so do the Imperial Fists. There's nothing wrong with their geneseed

Aside from missing Betcher's Gland and Sus-an Membrane.

Animus wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Whoever said that the Ultramarines have the purest Geneseed, so do the Imperial Fists. There's nothing wrong with their geneseed

Aside from missing Betcher's Gland and Sus-an Membrane.

QUIET, MY BLACK TEMPLARS ARE PERFECT

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
To be fair, he had no idea the Psychic Scourge was corrupy and did it under Inquisitor Drogan's orders, who is an INQUISITOR and should be obeyed by everyone under him, including Captains of the Adeptus Astartes. But you're a Space Wolf, you wouldn't understand Inquisitorial Authority.

Anything with the words Inqusitor and psyker releated stuff should be a warning to anyone. And why yes I never where good at ebnding my knees to anyone not of the same chapter as me

 UltraTacSgt wrote:


How could you not be an Ultramarine? What drove you to seek refuge with a lesser chapter?

The Emperor created 20 Space Marine legions.
To call descendants of said Legions "lesser"... is doubting the Emperor.

No I don't want to be a heretic Ultramarine who questions his Emperor.




Your sig : "Macragge, Gullyman, Emparah" says everything. It is correctly, Emperor > Imperium > Primarch > chapter.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Ultramarines are popular because they're normal. They're like soldiers, they obey combat doctrine. Not all Ultramarines do this, however (Titus, what a guy), and those guys are probably the best of the Ultramarines.
Whoever said that the Ultramarines have the purest Geneseed, so do the Imperial Fists. There's nothing wrong with their geneseed and they're the progenitors to the largest chapter to have ever existed, the Black Templars, and they don't seem to have any problems whereas the Fire Hawks (rumored UM successor) burst into flames IIRC. Or that might have been the Flame Falcons...

The Imperial Fists can't make the acid spitting gland anymore; only the Ultramarines have all of the original mix, apparently.

EDIT: Apparently the Dark Angels have it pure, too.

On the geneseed front, DA should be most pure, as they are the first, and Lionel showed no signs of...well anything besides being a standard version 1.0 primarch.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I'm not putting down the Ultramarines in general. Just Ventris.

Ventris was a bad Ultramarine. He put his life above his duty (Nightbringer incident). He put his personal glory above his duty (Tyranid incident). I gave up after that point.

yeah that's he thing about the Taris Ultra incident, Ventris basicly choose to run off with a buncha death watch, instead of staying with his command. the "codex breach" he was found guilty of was called decleration of duty. he'd have been court martialed for this in ANY modern military. the guy had highly capable subordinates, subordinates who didn't have command responsabilities, he should have sent one of them

I chose Ultramarine membership for a few reasons:

When I was a kid, I identified with the imagery of them. My mom and dad moved here from Rome and then had me, so my nonno and nonna's house, and my relatives' and indeed my own, were always full of Roman/Italian imagery, lots of laurel wreaths and Roman warriors and SPQR, etc. etc.

When I first decided to collect marines as a little guy, I was immediately attracted to what appeared to be my people - in space with big effing guns fighting brutal aliens! I knew instantly it was a top contender for my chapter. Then, as I read about the fluff, I started to recognize names and started to love the epic tales of victory headed by Marneus Calgar, and so on. I finally picked them and never regretted it since.

I'll admit though, Black Templars were a very close second. I was attracted to the simple color scheme and dark lore (at the time there wasn't a whole lot focusing on BT though).

My answer is a little more pragmatic than some of the other folks here who seem to genuinely identify with the ideology or status quos of some of these chapters. I don't feel like my reason is as cool. :(

Pfft…

Smurfs. Mary Sues. Guillimanns Girlies.

Of course an often over looked fact.

They are not called Ultramarines because they are "Ultra" or "Super" or better in anyway then other space marines.

They are called Ultramarines because.... They are Ultramarine blue.... and that's it.... Woopee. They "greatest" marines are named after the color they wear and suddenly they are the "best' without question?
I don't get it.....

 Archie The Death Rider wrote:
Pfft…

Smurfs. Mary Sues. Guillimanns Girlies.

Rawbutt Girlyman


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
I chose Ultramarine membership for a few reasons:

When I was a kid, I identified with the imagery of them. My mom and dad moved here from Rome and then had me, so my nonno and nonna's house, and my relatives' and indeed my own, were always full of Roman/Italian imagery, lots of laurel wreaths and Roman warriors and SPQR, etc. etc.

When I first decided to collect marines as a little guy, I was immediately attracted to what appeared to be my people - in space with big effing guns fighting brutal aliens! I knew instantly it was a top contender for my chapter. Then, as I read about the fluff, I started to recognize names and started to love the epic tales of victory headed by Marneus Calgar, and so on. I finally picked them and never regretted it since.

I'll admit though, Black Templars were a very close second. I was attracted to the simple color scheme and dark lore (at the time there wasn't a whole lot focusing on BT though).

My answer is a little more pragmatic than some of the other folks here who seem to genuinely identify with the ideology or status quos of some of these chapters. I don't feel like my reason is as cool. :(

Also, you made a mistake..
Black Templars are the best