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I'm getting back into wargaming and will be working on some GW products I've had laying around. However, I am interested in other game systems as well. My FLGS has a big following of FoW, but that may only be because it is located <1mile from a military base. I went by there one day with a friend to show him some Warmahordes and GW stuff, then he stumbled upon FoW and was enamored by it. To me though, I live every day in the military so the idea of playing a miniature game based on the military is not all that appealing. If it was slightly futuristic I may have interest, but the whole WW2 thing really isn't doing it for me. What is your reason for liking FoW? I'm interested to hear what everyone else has to say because I may change my mind and want to check it out!

Like the rules system, it's clear, relatively good for tournaments, and there is a wide range if manufacturers for models. Also I enjoy the historical aspect of it

I have played 40k and fantasy since 1991.

I recently picked up the FoW starter set and the rules are so much better written than 40k. Plus I find the 15mm scale works very well. The miniatures still have good detail the tanks are nice and chunky but a large force dosn't take up too much room and you can paint them up pretty quickly.

I have always been a bit of a history nerd and there's something about replaying historic battles and seeing if you can do better than the loosing side.

I think for me is the fact of the different forces fighting it out that nonhistorically did not fight each other,example last nites game. MG Grenadier Guards Armor vs. 12th SS for Atlantik Wall.

Yea similar to what other people have written. I am a massive history buff and find the second world war fascinating. The war was an Apocalypse of sorts. The result pretty much shaped the world we live in. Imagine if the allies had lost... badly? Europe/UK/Russia would be a Nazi Distopia. Australia, Hawaii, China, Korea, New Zealand, India and the rest of Asia/Pacific could have ended up being ruled by a bunch of cruel Japanese militarists... (of course all or a great deal of these territories being controlled completely or at all by the Japanese if they won (i.e US sued for peace) is unlikely, but you get the idea). WW2 was also the nail in the coffin for colonialism.


I mean if the allies had managed to keep going as badly as they were early in the war what would have happened? Even if they did have the industrial might of USSR/USA. You can't keep fighting if your factories are controlled by the enemy or you have no bases from which to fight in a region or no fleet left.

Miniatures are also nice, Battlefront has a better attitude towards its players then Games Workshop (who seems intent on squeezing the very last cent out of people). For example they give out free army lists and painting and modeling advice, and no finecast (what a shock). The rules and rule books are good and also seem much more affordable and not designed to maximize profit. Their stuff is the same price as GW, but I don't mind (: .

With all that's being said it sounds like it's a fun game system and the models are good also. I could see having more fun with a WWI or Civil War setting though. I am really banking on my FLGS to have demos set up on Tabletop Day. I really need to frequent that shop more often to see when they do demos of different things. Or if the owner wouldn't mind demoing something with me. Most the time he is chilling behind the desk painting anyway. Oh, another thing about FoW is I find it overwhelming like there is so many options. Not only in models but I see some stuff about mid-war and late-war and other madness.

I like tanks.

So many historical periods to game, dont have to be WW2.

Never played FoW, and never will. Not really my sort of thing... I prefer a more WW2 feel to my WW2 games.

But im an old fart who counts rivets!

Out of interest MadMarkMagee, is FoW stuff in Aus bumped up in price like GW?

dave40k, yes I think you've hit the nail on the head really with your post. If the setting and style of the game isn't to your personal liking, then that's it really. I don't think it needs any more of an examination than that. There are some games that don't appeal to me for whatever reason and so I won't play them also.

Having said that, there are some things I like about both the game and the company that makes it. The game is very tactical, well balanced and also quick to play. Lots of the players seem to try hard to paint their army (a general thing with historical games), and make an effort with terrain. The miniatures are lovely, and the game is extremely cheap to play also as you can choose from so many suppliers who make the miniatures. Think my latest army has models from at least 3 or 4 companies in it.

FYI, Battlefront is based in New Zealand and the miniatures are produced in Malaysia so there shouldn't be a GW style price discrepancy.

Well, I liked WWII and had an interest in Historical Gaming already when Flames of War came about.

IMHO it's not the be-all-end-all rule system, but it is very solid and better written than many of the other heavily popular sci-fi, fantasy, steam punk, goth, whatever games out there right now.

What really got me into FoW was the marketing. Sounds kinda silly right? Well, before Flames or War came around you had (and still have) a ton of different WWII rule sets and scales, none of which were ever widely supported or distributed by their parent companies. Battlefront came out with a well written, well present rule set and marketed it through LGSs everywhere and it quickly became the standardized rule set. Prior to that, you'd have to go over to someone's home who was hosting, learn their rule set (often modified by them with a ton of house rules, usually to favor their favorite units) and play the battles they wanted to. Flames of War kicked that door open and brought historical out of the basements and into the LGS.

Nice stereotypical view of historical wargamers...

Infantry are amazing (as they should be), heaps of variation in lists and factions, emphasis on scenery, amazing rules (if not a little abstract) and more importantly it actually happened.

I love history and wargaming, but I have to comprimise and since 40k players find it easier to get into flames of war I play that system as a way of introducing players to the setting.

They also interact with their customers unlike other companies (cough) and show you what they are up to and help out and are in general more customer friendly.

 Pacific wrote:
Out of interest MadMarkMagee, is FoW stuff in Aus bumped up in price like GW?

The prices seem the same in the UK, US and AUD. Interestingly the NZ price seems a bit higher, but I think the value of the NZD is quite high atm?


To compare to GW the A tactical squad costs the equivalent of 46 Aud in the UK while costing 65 dollars in Australia. A squad of metal steel leigon imperial guard cost the equivalent of 37 Aud in the UK while costing 60 Aud in Australia.

I think GW and Battlfronts actuall production costs for most things would be similar. Battlefronts production runs are much smaller and they don't have much in the way of plastic.

The first game of FoW I ever played I used Germans (probably everyone's experience). Tried out Brits, the Germans again, and then I did a u-turn and started collecting Americans. I find the game system to be very well polished; if anything can't be explained then you work it out between yourselves. Battlefront seem to listen to their community and, although there are some cheesy army lists out there (and I hate the idea of using characters), the game manages to be very well balanced whilst also being historically accurate (in short, the Germans have the best gear, but play it smart and they are far from unbeatable).
Despite the samey scenarios in the rulebook, each game you play is different. I've played long games that ended up like blood baths, then the next week it's over by turn two because I captured the objective with some recon dudes. Tournaments and campaigns work very well with this ruleset, and the miniatures look great.

I think you answered your own question however. You already know it's probably not your cup of tea, but there's no harm in trying! Maybe watch some Battlefront vids on YouTube or pop to your local wargaming club and ask for a demo?

I like the fact it isn't Fantasy, I'm not locked into specific miniatures. I can mix and match across 15mm all the different ranges and models and get a nice mix of models.. Soldiers are different sizes and shapes.



I also like the fact I'm learning about history and specific events, as well as equipment, units and vehicles. I can hold my own now in a museum talking about things and explaining to the kids and wife what it was and how it worked / what it did.

I will never have a practical use for my 40k knowledge it's just a flight of fantasy, whereas Market-Garden actually happened (unlike say Istvaan!),

I love it for the history aspect, as well as being able to play a game with nothing but tanks!

It's also a bit of a painting challenge, I don't feel right unless what I have painted is historically correct. While it not be the right unit for the list I'm playing, as long as it's painted correctly for the unit it is, I'm happy.

I liked it because a Sherman was the first miniature vehicle I ever handled. It was some time around January 2013 and my mate got us all around to have a bash.

I loved the scale of the models. I still haven't carried on with my models since we've now got three dogs, but I've always wanted to finish my list. Me and my friend were even going to make a gaming board together so we could play.

I like FoW because of the memories and close links it has to when me and my friends were all together and university and college didn't stop us from enjoying ourselves.

I was drawn into Flames of War last year when 40K left a vacuum in my playgroup after half of us left 6th edition. The biggest draw wasn't the ruleset or the miniatures for me, it was the fact that it was WWII. I've always been a WWII junkie, were it not for 40K then Flames of War may very well have been my first miniatures game.

I don't play Flames of War anymore though, because I was exposed to the brilliance that is the Battlegroup ruleset. Big P and Warwick have all of my respect for the sheer concentrated dose of awesome they've injected into my group's historical gaming. I could never go back to Flames.

Creeping deth...

I just had to text that to Warwick.

Thank you. Nice to hear good vibes.

No problem bud, I'm spreading the word everywhere I can! Can't wait for Barbarossa

Nice ruleset. Company is pretty awesome and generous in terms of what they offer. Cheap. Easy to assemble and paint.
People who play it are generally a more interesting crowd, I found...

And it looks good... Like with smoke markers, proper terrain and painted models it looks soooo nice.

The rules are great, they only update them when they need to and the update is always for the better. Lots of books and list so I can pick and choose what kinda army I want to play and change it up all the time. I love WW2 history, having a few family members that servered in WW2 on the American and German side also drags me into it. I love WW2 tanks and planes, and they have almost all of them in FoW, plus FoW is for the most part fairly cheap and very easy to paint. They also make FoW Vietnam and the choppers are just awesome. My Grandfather flew Huey gunships in Vietnam so I looked at the old pictures of him and his Huey and painted them up just like his was. Plus Pattons and Cobras are just awesome to have models of. I love it because of the wide variety of things you can do in the game and with the models. We use out extra models for Force on Force and Bolt Action and they work really nice for it.

Well, I was drawn into FoW due to a group down in McAllen, TX that was into it. FoW wasn't my first historical game at all, but it was my first 15mm-sized game for me. Picked Italians at the time since nobody was using them and learned the challenge of commanding a variable quality of gear-handicapped troops and did quite well with them after some study.

My first was Squad Leader and Advanced Squad Leader when i was a Freshman in High School (in Germany of course). Decent rule-sets for the time and their vehicle rules were getting better. However, I did get into Battletech later on post high school and really immersed myself in it, using terrain and miniature rules instead of the hex-boards. In the interim I played Mustangs & Messerschmitts using 1/72 scale models on the telescoping poles on casters. Great game but it is probably better at the 1:100 scale for room and space purposes lol!

So, the jaunt into 40k was circa 1994 and I was hooked, but as the years went by and the game changed along with the community, it became obvious that one of two things was happening to me; the game was passing me by and/or I was stepping outside the "box" and seeing things in a different perspective in gaming terms (aka getting older/wiser). About a year or two before 6th edition hit, I just couldn't keep up or stomach what was going on so I went to FoW. It's been a breath of fresh air for me and I've enjoyed it. The rules are ok, however, I am looking at getting into Battlegroup Kursk to take it to the next level. I've always enjoyed historicals for the most part as I'm a big fan of history (military or otherwise).

In Nashville, TN we have NASHCON that is sponsored by the HMGS (Historical Miniature Gaming Society) and a good number of their members are my friends and I would help out running events, whether it be Johnny Reb or Black Powder scenarios.

So, for me, FoW is just a refreshing break for now until I get into Battlegroup.

A couple of things...
#1. The passionate people are still in charge of Battlefront... unlike GW
#2. The relationship between the company and the fanbase is better than a lot of companies. Battlefront will admit to making mistakes and work hard with the community to fix them.
#3. Little to no codex creep
#4. The rules are generally clearer... you are more likely to forget the details, but overall the rules are clearer.
#5. Since I only get to play in tourneys... Battlefront does a good job supporting tourney play.
#6. 15mm tanks are fun to paint... 28mm tanks are a pain to paint unless you have an airbrush (which I don't). 15mm army men are easy to paint... even though I don't enjoy it as much as 28mm.

While I haven't really played FoW, but would like to, here are my reasons:

#1 It seems like a fun fairly intuitive system.
#2 I like the 15mm scale
#3 It's a lot cheaper to get a FoW force than one for most GW games (I can afford an entire company for < $200US)
#4 WW2 is a fascinating period of history with a lot of what ifs
#5 I've been doing a lot of research into the Pegasus Bridge battle for a NaNoWriMo idea, and a British Airlanding Company appeals because of that.
#6 You get a lot less weird looks painting tanks and soldiers from non-gamers than you do painting up Tomb Kings or Tau
#7 Battlefront in general seems more engaged with their customer base than GW.
#8 It's a very popular system for historical, so it's easier to find opponents (I guess, moving soon, so I'll see)

Oh I completely forgot in my post...

The slightly older demographic....I enjoy playing in the 30+ age bracket, it's just a bit more grown up and I don't have to act as Pseudo baby-sitter to a socially awkward teenager.

Plus you don't get many purile arguments like "Mephiston vs Hive tyrant" or my build can smash anything.

I like a gentle afternoon, with a few friends, a cup of Coffee, tea or Glass of Beer, some snacks and a bit of a chat about the models, the scenario etc. Win or Lose I don't actually care, it's the spectacle I like and enjoy.

It doesn't have 'silly' rules (esp. for scenery), races based on being drunk/on drugs, one race being better than the rest, and there are a few ranges you can use.

 mwnciboo wrote:
Oh I completely forgot in my post...

The slightly older demographic....I enjoy playing in the 30+ age bracket, it's just a bit more grown up and I don't have to act as Pseudo baby-sitter to a socially awkward teenager.

Plus you don't get many purile arguments like "Mephiston vs Hive tyrant" or my build can smash anything.

I like a gentle afternoon, with a few friends, a cup of Coffee, tea or Glass of Beer, some snacks and a bit of a chat about the models, the scenario etc. Win or Lose I don't actually care, it's the spectacle I like and enjoy.

I know how you feel,i have always been one of the older players usuallly 10 plus years.I have been refered as the old Vet.,wwith some of the 4ok groups i have played in shops with.Another thing is that people dont ask silly questions if you are painting ww2 models.The most common one is how in the hell do you oaint that small scale stuff?also the females also understand a ww2 hobby more than some sci fi crap.
Atleast now the ww2 gaming bug is catching on in my area.i just had 2 players join this week and will be running a few demo games here in the future at are local hobby shop,but will be sponsored by the local war museum.I just wonder how many players will end up playing the 101st.,for are area we have a crazy amount of ex paratroopers.probably more of them than regular infantry riflemen.Good old American Farmboys make some of the best troops in the world.

dave40k wrote:
I'm getting back into wargaming and will be working on some GW products I've had laying around. However, I am interested in other game systems as well. My FLGS has a big following of FoW, but that may only be because it is located <1mile from a military base. I went by there one day with a friend to show him some Warmahordes and GW stuff, then he stumbled upon FoW and was enamored by it. To me though, I live every day in the military so the idea of playing a miniature game based on the military is not all that appealing. If it was slightly futuristic I may have interest, but the whole WW2 thing really isn't doing it for me. What is your reason for liking FoW? I'm interested to hear what everyone else has to say because I may change my mind and want to check it out!

I like military history and have been a WWII buff almost as long as I've been old enough to read. The game itself is well written, flows well and is enjoyable to play. Playing it is the exact opposite of playing Warhammer 40k for me. Where 40k is poorly written to the point that asking 8 people about the same rule will give you 8 different interpretations, Flames of War is clean, concise and effective. If someone forgets a rule and asks 8 people nearby they pretty much always give the same explanation because the rules are well written and not left open to interpretation depending on your mood. This leads to fewer arguments around the table and less frustration. You play Warmahordes so you understand the difference with better written games.

No reason to play the game just because you feel you should. If table top gaming is your escape from your normal day to day world, then play what you enjoy. There are plent of options for fantasy and sci-fi gaming out there these days that you don't need to jump into it. I have friends who love table top gaming and have zero interest in ANYTHING historical, so it is all about personal choice and interest. I know I don't really care how awesome someone finds Warhammer Fantasy Battle to be, I just will not play the game anymore.

Skriker