Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Let's say I have TK allied with HE, and their Mage casts Hand Glory(+D3 to BS) on my skeleton archers, and rolls 5 or 6 on the spell resolve. Then my skellies have BS 5. Do they need 2 To Hit when shooting, or the arrows of Asaph rule overrides their increased BS, meaning they need 5+ To Hit?

It specifically says bonuses or penalties.

It also says "regardless of source of modifier". Is the increased BS considered a source of modifier?

Yes, unless it states otherwise.

There is no way TK BS will ever under any circumstances be modified by anything. It's about the most ironclad wording of any wording in any book.

If Sigmar, the Old Ones, all the Ruinous Powers, the HE gods, Gork AND Mork, all try and give one single TK archer +1 BS, it would fail.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
There is no way TK BS will ever under any circumstances be modified by anything. It's about the most ironclad wording of any wording in any book.

If Sigmar, the Old Ones, all the Ruinous Powers, the HE gods, Gork AND Mork, all try and give one single TK archer +1 BS, it would fail.

Unless there all saucy snake ladies!

Interesting, I just re-read it.

The rule states they never receive any bonuses or penalties to shooting. Which is a specific chart and section in the BRB. But that isn't the same as modifying BS directly, which is a characteristic.

The queen modifies BS, she doesn't modify shooting.

SOOO, I'm not actually sure. Certainly nothing can modify their shooting per that BRB chart, but can something modify their characteristic? RAW, I don't know if Arrows of Asaph addresses that. Of course that also means you could reduce their BS and basically make them worthless.

Yes, of course you can reduce it with lore of shadow. But lore of shadow signature pretty much makes every shooting unit useless. I have made Leadbelchers, sisters of avelorn, dwarf handgunners and other units score 0 wounds in their shooting phase.

I think that the BS value can be changed, but no modifier to the to hit rolls.

Arrows of Asaph rule states archers always hit on 5+.

The Queen stats that archers in her unit uses her BS to Shoot. So the only time BS spell (+BS or -BS) will effect the archers is if the Queen is in the unit.

*edit Wrong info.. I know better than to post and not look 1st.

It doesn't say that at all. It mentions no numbers. And it doesn't mention BS. It says modifiers, which is an entirely different section of Shooting after BS. Modifiers isn't +BS or -BS it is modifiers--your BS attribute doesn't get lowered if you march, your chance to hit does. Read the shooting rules.

Arrows of Asaph rule states archers always hit on 5+.

Nope, they don't say that, just that they "never count any bonuses or penalties to hit when shooting"
Indeed a modifier isn't the same as changing the BS stat
Hand of Glory / Miasma would affect them, as does Khalida

Ok, thanks for feedback, I played a game today, I put 30 skeletons archers and i gave them + D3 BS, multiple shots(2) from Nehekhara lore. I was against dark elves/ogres, this unit was pretty deadly.