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Changes to Stealth / Shrouded and Cover, and rerolls.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Stealth and shrouded no longer affect your cover saves instead they do the following.

Stealth reduces the range weapons can fire at any unit containing a model with stealth by 6"

Shrouded reduces the range weapons can fire at any unit containing a model with shrouded by 6", this effect is cumulative with stealth.

Cover saves- Cover saves are now taken after rolling to hit, but before rolling to wound.

sequence of shooting, not including USRs like FnP-

1.) Check range
2.) Roll to hit
3.) Roll cover saves
4.) Roll to wound
5.) Allocate wounds that may be allocated.
6.) Roll armor saves
7.) Remove casualties
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







The biggest issue with this is that it makes cover vastly better since you get cover and armour; you've made the Tau even more broken than they are and reduced the game to a mixture of Bikes running about thumbing their noses at bullets and infantry cowering in bunkers.

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Made in ca
Tough Tyrant Guard






I do like the idea but the ramifications while be huge!!!
This would require to re-point-value all models in the game.
There is a reason why G-W chose to do the "only one save can be taken at a time" thing, it was to streamline gameplay.
Following this base of logic then invulnerable saves should also have their own place in the sequence of shooting. And then we are retouching every single rule once we embark on that road.

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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

Shrouded should really be -12" or possibly -9" because it is twice as good as stealth and something with just stealth should not be as good as something with just shrouded.

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Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

Is there a minimum range? If I'm 1" away with a character that has an infernus pistol (6" range) can I shoot at all?
Also, if cover becomes ridiculous, then ignore cover becomes amazing, so points recalc for a number of models there.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yes it would require a points recalculation for things that ignore cover.

If range would be reduced to below 6" for any attack it would have a minimum range of 6" ie you cannot be less than a 6" attack unless the weapon before modifiers was already less than 6" range.

I agree that shrouded should be better than the modifer for stealth, not sure what to do with that yet.

Thank you for the feedback.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





I think having stealth act like you would expect stealth to, not just offer better cover saves, would be a great, interesting direction, but you need a more formal, developed system to place these changes into, not just throwing them in haphazardly. You end up with all sorts of weird situations like models with pistols or most of the eldar codex would be unable to hit a unit with both stealth and shrouding.

The fog of war system im toying with, which was inspired by Tarrasq's ideas, has stealth and shrouding do two very different things. As a primer, a unit can only be "seen" if they are within 24" of an enemy unit, and must be "seen" by two enemy units to be fired at with full BS, otherwise there's a -1 BS penalty, as they are not clearly seen.

Units with stealth could only be "seen" if they are closer to an enemy unit (likely 3 or 6 inches closer). Shrouding instead increases the number of enemy units necessary to fully "see" the unit by 1. This way the two rules do not have identical effects, and actually play differently. Plus it wouldn't make sense for a venomthrope to make a gaunt brood "stealthier", they are just a bit harder to make out due to the fog.

This system also facilitates size categories for models, because a landraider should be a much easier target than a rhino, but actually having units receive BS bonuses / penalties for firing at different sized units would be difficult to balance and a bit frustrating to play, so instead they are just more easily "seen" through the fog of war.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I agree that a system that facilitates size categories would be difficult to balance.

There were previous editions of 40k that did have hit modifiers for speed / size of models, but not size of units.

many people found the constant adjustment of modifiers for every shooting attack over the course of the game took up too much time, and the game moved in a direction that requires less time to resolve modifiers or things that would cause an affect.

I also agree about the whacky situation of having many units basic weapons reduced to only firing from 6"

Another idea I am thinking of is the following.

If a unit contains at least 1 model with stealth, any unit firing at that unit must reduce the effective firing range of their weapons by 6" when targeting that unit. To a minimum of 6" for weapons that have a base range of 6' or more. The unit may still fire at a stealthed unit that is beyond their effective range but within the weapons max range, but all shots in that range are resolved as snap shots.

For example a Squad of 5 Tac marines with Bolters wants to fire at a Lictor. The lictor is 19" away from 3 marines and 17" from 2 marines in the squad. The bolters max range is 24, stealth reduces its effective range to 18. The marines within 18" fire at their full BS, the marines that are between 18 and 24" in range may only fire snap shots.

Shrouded would do the same thing but is 12", and is cumulative with stealth. [so the two combined would reduce effective range by 18"]

This would not make the units untargettable but would represent that they are harder to detect, especially from a distance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/20 19:33:40


 
   
 
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