Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys. I am entering a 200 point kill team torny, and was wondering what blood angel teams people could come up with. I need something which will stand upto grey knight, smurf and wolf teams.

I have never played kill team before so please slow simple terms!!!!

thanks all.

well a sternguard squad

sgt - combi weapon, power weapon
5 marines - combi weapons and two assault weapons

comes to 195 points.

which leaves you choice so say you take a meltagun, flamer, 2 combi plasma, 2 combi flamer. with special issue ammo you can take on everything. you have aoe for hordes, high ap for marines. and some tank busting incase of dreads or alike.

How would this or lets say the sanguinary guard five man squad fair against say 20 man tac squad?

you stick to cover and concentrate fire on the special and heavy weapons first then just gun the rest down. special issue gives you an anti marine round. the sanguinary guard just cut down marines in the same order. special and heavy first then the rest.

The issue is anything you'd want to bring on Blood Angels, you can bring with regular space marines for cheaper as Blood Angels haven't been updated yet. Sternguard? Better for Codex marines. Vanguard? You can't deep strike anyway as the only reserves you can do is Outflank, so better for Codex marines. Bikes? Cheaper for codex marines.

The list goes on. Sanguinary guard would at least be something you can't just bring in Codex marines, but you're limiting your numbers pretty hard doing so. Your ideal model count is between 8 to 10. Obviously more is better, but when each guy is an individual unit, you're risking being overrun easily against Orks, Chaos Cultists, Tyranids, etc.

ok, I'll dump the guard and maybe go for 5 snipers and 5 death company perhaps??

If you keep them light in cost Death Company is a fantastic choice. If memory serves me correct you can take a five man squad with three bolters, a power sword, a power axe and a powerfist for 155 points. Also they are Relentless, Have built in Feel No Pain, Black Rage and Furiouscharge. Tough as nails and hits like a truck in assault. They can be kited to a degree but to that cost there are to my knowledge a very few armies that can bring that kind of offence at 200 points. Add a few more DC with bolters and you're in great shape.

Sanguinary guard are not legal in the current kill team rules (they have 2+ armor saves).
Sternguard are strictly worse than Codex:SM.
Tactical squads are a so-so choice. They're more expensive, and they come with the veteran sargent upgrade by default (which you may or may not want).
Assault Squads are more expensive than regular Codex:SM (seeing a pattern here?). They do get meltaguns, which is a big plus against other marines.
Other choices (Vanguards, Bikes) are clearly bad, IMO

Death Company is probably the most "interesting" choice, and is what I personally would go with. I would take 10 with boltguns. They're fearless, so they won't take moral tests - a big advantage in kill teams. They have FNP, so they're somewhat tougher than regular (and get saves even from low AP weapons). They're relentless, so you can give them regular bolters for rapidfire+assault. And they're way better than other space marines in close combat (WS5 + furious charge + 3 attacks = more than twice as many wounds on average than even veteran marines, almost four times as many as regular marines).

bopins wrote:Hi guys. I am entering a 200 point kill team torny, and was wondering what blood angel teams people could come up with. I need something which will stand upto grey knight, smurf and wolf teams.

I have never played kill team before so please slow simple terms!!!!

thanks all.

Kill Team is fantastic fun.

The new rules are reasonably decent too.
If you don't have a copy, you should acquire one, plenty of fun all round.

Remember the requirements are:
Max 200pts
0-1 Elite
0-2 Troops
0-1 Fast Attack
Must be at least 4 Non-Vehicle models.

No Models may have a 2+ Armour Save or more than 3 Wounds.

No Vehicles may have more than 3HP or a combined AV greater than 33 (FA+SA+RA).

No Reserves and No Flyers.
Any units that would normally have to arrive by Deep Strike are instead deployed at the start.

Also remember that while you must pruchase whole units and meet any requirements (i.e. 5 men to get a special weapon), when on the field each model acts independently as a seperate unit.
This means that any gear bought by a single model, that would normally affect the entire unit, does not.


Your min. 4 models will be your Leader and 3 different Specialists (chosen from Combat, Weapon, Dirty Fighter, Indomitable and Guerilla lists).
All models, including vehicles are scoring, unless their rules specifically state otherwise.
Full 1/2 of the Kill Team missions are objective based, so bear that in mind.

bopins wrote:How would this or lets say the sanguinary guard five man squad fair against say 20 man tac squad?

Not going to face 20 marines, as 20 is 280pts base, before taking any weapons upgrades.
10 kitted out is far more likely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to Kill Team composition for Blood Angels, I would probably run Death Company with Boltguns and Jetpacks.

35pts each, 5 is 175, leaving 25pts for other upgrades.
Maybe a Power Fist for Anti-Armour and improved smashery?

The speed means you can get across the board inside 1-2 turns (important for a couple of mission types), it means you can run circles round the enemy and engage as you see fit.

You're tough enough to soak a reasonable amount of fire, and won't run, with plenty of boltgun fire to back you up.



That said, remember you can face some crazy stuff in Kill Team, such as several Bikes, large hordes (up to 40 models) and multi-vehicle lists.
My Dark Eldar Kill Team is 5 Warriors, 3 Wracks, a Raider with Dark Lance and a Venom.

This all actually sounds pretty fun. Does it change the dynamics for any armies that are generally on the weak side? Did they make some kind of physical book this time or is it s PDF? Is the PDF then some kind of exorbitantly priced digital product?

If such a thing is accessible enough... might get me painting marines again.

Sorry to side track. Death company does sound like a potent and versatile option for a ba player.

 GrimDork wrote:
This all actually sounds pretty fun.

It certainly is.

 GrimDork wrote:
Does it change the dynamics for any armies that are generally on the weak side?

Yes, it totally upsets the metagame - you need to throw away a lot of your assumptions about what is good and what isn't. For example, a Tau gunline struggles greatly against a green tide of orks in Kill Teams (the opposite is true in full-scale 40k).

I've seen people try to bring death company squadies in small point games because they seem tough but I also see them invairriably die quickly as well.
You might want to consider the advantages of mobility and the like that a squad of Assault marines with a couple of flamers can bring.

When is the tourney btw?

I suggested the 5 Jump DC because of toughness + speed.

I considered regular Assault Marines, but you'd only get 7-8, and a couple of options in there, and you're losing the FnP and Fearless, which is much bigger now than it used to be in Kill Team.


But I'll see if I can figure out some alternate BA lists, and maybe try em out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GrimDork wrote:
This all actually sounds pretty fun. Does it change the dynamics for any armies that are generally on the weak side? Did they make some kind of physical book this time or is it s PDF? Is the PDF then some kind of exorbitantly priced digital product?

If such a thing is accessible enough... might get me painting marines again.

Sorry to side track. Death company does sound like a potent and versatile option for a ba player.

As per the link in my sig, it's a Digital Download: http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Kill-Team.html
Only £7 though, and it's a reasonable size tbh, certainly worth it in my opinion.
I hope for a physical release, but at the end fo the day, don't mind this.

And I love Kill Team. Slowly making teams for each of my armies.. sometimes multiple.

Being most Teams only need 1-2 kits worth of stuff, and presents a ton of modeling oppurtunities, it's both affordable and interesting.

Gamewise it changes basically everything.
Everything being a single model, and only having 200pts to play with forces you to think hard.
Every single point is precious.
Every model needs a purpose.

Thanks for the info guys I'm sitting on 4500 points of space marines with zero inspiration. I want to tall scale because marines and guardsmen being the same height makes me go cross eyed and dizzy.. or maybe just sad. It's daunting to tall scale an entire force though. This would also let me fiddle around with some of my dark eldar units. Gonna take a deeper look into it for the modeling opportunities alone, do the games go fairly quickly or do things still take awhile because of all of the independent movement?

It's relatively quick tbh.
you can generally fit 2-3 games of Kill Team in an hour.

Ooh that's kind of fantastic. May have to get that supplement.

Keep in mind that while every unit becomes a scoring unit including vehicles in kill team, it expressly says "Unless otherwise stated in their rules (like Death Company)". Going Death Company puts you at a marked disadvantage in any of the objective games as a result. You are going board-wipe or bust in those games with what is still effectively an elite unit (small numbers, high resilency).

Blood Angels and Space Wolves are sadly just gimp for Kill Team right now. I'd be down with you running your guys as though it was out of Codex: Space Marine for the points side of things for any troop with a 1:1 equivalent. Regular ol' marines are actually pretty great because Rhinos are fantastic in kill team (two fire points, a storm bolter and a diffiult-to-harm-with-small-fire 11/11/10 AV shell), you get two weapons which are great to utilize as specialists, and every last guy has Frag/Krak grenades so your marines operating each as an independant unit can put a lot of hurt out against a lot of targets.

Hi guys. thanks for the help. just an update, its 200 points and 2+ save allowed. its not the proper kill team rules but a 90% version of it.

several members are using mega loads of nids!!! and one is using termies.

now I really do need help :-)

taking place on the 29 march.

This is what Blood Angels can do that other marines can't:

Sanguinary Priest, barebones > leader

5 man Assault Marine squad, melta gun (tank hunter usr?)
Sergeant with 2x Hand Flamers with Fleshbane USR
Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter with a special rule. Maybe IWND?

This is 200 points and is crazy. The guy with two 2+ wounding flamers wrecks mobs of enemies, the melta gun that pens pretty much everything and then blows it up with reroll on the damage chart and AP1, and the Sanguinary priest giving all your marines FnP and FC while they're all carted around in the best possible transport you can take: a fast razorback

Watch out for the Venomthrop in kill team. I run one as a specialist for instant death USR. It wounds on 2, with I.D. and gets and gives cover saves. Paired with a brood of Stealers you have a really nasty setup.

As to your marines, Razorbacks are just mean in Killteam. With the 2+ being allowed, the Sanguinary guard are back as an option. But I would still seriously think about running BA STerngaard as C:SM Sternguard with rhino or razorback.

Fun Atelier? (if you don't know then... never mind just ignore this post)

I don't believe you can take flesh bane on hand flamers. Be very careful when you go to the specialist section, because the method of defining ranged/melee weapons is very easy to miss.

I don't play BA, but I can say with certainty that facing stern guard in kill team sucks.

EDIT: Phrased wrong, just makes it more challenging. Is liable to piss some people off though.

 bocatt wrote:
This is what Blood Angels can do that other marines can't:

Sanguinary Priest, barebones > leader

5 man Assault Marine squad, melta gun (tank hunter usr?)
Sergeant with 2x Hand Flamers with Fleshbane USR
Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter with a special rule. Maybe IWND?

This is 200 points and is crazy. The guy with two 2+ wounding flamers wrecks mobs of enemies, the melta gun that pens pretty much everything and then blows it up with reroll on the damage chart and AP1, and the Sanguinary priest giving all your marines FnP and FC while they're all carted around in the best possible transport you can take: a fast razorback

Fleshbane granted from the Dirty Fighter specialist is for melee weapons only.

It's also a waste to drop Tank Hunter on the melta gun guy. You won't face anything with better than armor 12, and in fact most things you'd actually see in a Kill Team are just AV10 or 11. You'd need some superbly bad rolls to need Tank Hunter on a melta gun to pop a Rhino or Razorback.

 SRSFACE wrote:

 bocatt wrote:
This is what Blood Angels can do that other marines can't:

Sanguinary Priest, barebones > leader

5 man Assault Marine squad, melta gun (tank hunter usr?)
Sergeant with 2x Hand Flamers with Fleshbane USR
Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter with a special rule. Maybe IWND?

This is 200 points and is crazy. The guy with two 2+ wounding flamers wrecks mobs of enemies, the melta gun that pens pretty much everything and then blows it up with reroll on the damage chart and AP1, and the Sanguinary priest giving all your marines FnP and FC while they're all carted around in the best possible transport you can take: a fast razorback

Fleshbane granted from the Dirty Fighter specialist is for melee weapons only.

It's also a waste to drop Tank Hunter on the melta gun guy. You won't face anything with better than armor 12, and in fact most things you'd actually see in a Kill Team are just AV10 or 11. You'd need some superbly bad rolls to need Tank Hunter on a melta gun to pop a Rhino or Razorback.

I couldn't remember if Tank Hunter gave reroll to pen or reroll on the damage chart. I wanted the latter because the former is useless with 2d6 to pen on a melta gun where AV12 is almost out of the question. But you do want the vehicle to be wrecked or exploded and even with the +2 from AP1 it's not a guarantee so I thought rerolls would be helpful.

Can you take Shred on the Flamers? Or Poison? They wouldn't be as effective but it would still be what you're looking for as you want better to-wound rolls with a weapon that's strength 3.

And I couldn't decide on a usr for the Razorback. I'm not sure what would be good for it. If it had a dozer blade, I might consider shrouded for the better cover save.

Can't make vehicles specialists, sorry. And yes, Poison(4+) and sniper are available for ranged weapons. Probably better off taking sniper for Rending, and Pinning.

Sniper is on another table than the Poisoned (4+) Shooting, so you can take both on two different guys! Worth noting: Pinning is totally terrible in Kill Team because the way Pinning is worded, the save has to already have been failed, so it only helps against multi-wound models.

And I'm pretty sure you can make vehicles specialists. IIRC it only excludes Monstrous Creatures and Beasts. The Vehicles restriction is that you have to have at least 4 non-vehicle models. I don't personally own the rules, noob that I am. I am just going off what I recall from reading it thoroughly several times on my friend's iPad. I think we had this issue come up which is why I remember it, but I'm willing to admit my memory is far from perfect.

The Shred USR is on Dirty Fighter specialist and is for melee only.

There is no specialist that grants Shrouded. Guerilla Specialist gives Stealth, and that's the only thing that modifies cover saves. There's also a special rule for Ignores Cover for weapon specialists, which I bring every single game and stick on a rocket launcher guy. YOU CAN'T HIDE FROM MY HEAT-SEEKING MISSILES!

• A Kill Team must include at least four non-vehicle models. One of these models
must be your Leader and three must be Specialists (see below).

After choosing your Kill Team, you must determine which non-vehicle model will be
your Leader.

After choosing
your Kill Team and establishing who will be your Leader, you must nominate three
non-vehicle models to be Specialists.

Used to be that Vehicles could be Specialists though, in the old rules.

Thanks for the clarification. Guess I did have it all jumblied around in my brain. Now I know for sure and will make sure to pass that on.

 Ovion wrote:
• A Kill Team must include at least four non-vehicle models. One of these models
must be your Leader and three must be Specialists (see below).

After choosing your Kill Team, you must determine which non-vehicle model will be
your Leader.

After choosing
your Kill Team and establishing who will be your Leader, you must nominate three
non-vehicle models to be Specialists.

Used to be that Vehicles could be Specialists though, in the old rules.

Yeah I was looking at the old rules. So:

Sang priest leader
Hand flamers get poison 4+
Melta gun gets preferred enemy or ignores cover?
Random other guy gets Rampage or Rage or Shred or Fleshbane or something to make him better in CC