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I just did some editing on the allies matrix for a complete 6th "bugfix" I've been working on and I was wondering if what I have done fits with the canon.

Edit: oops, copied the wrong link

Don't know if it's just me, but I'm not seeing it.

I copied the link wrong, should be fixed now.

Some of your changes I agree with and some of them I don't.

Which ones? The main one that I think is a bit iffy is the IG/tyranid one which was to represent genestealer broods. Although just letting them ally with themselves might be enough.

Disagree with IG with CSM and Chaos Daemons. They should be BB to represent the Legion of the Damned (as cultists really can't do the job. It's not perfect but Ig allied is the closest one can get. Particularly sense that would be fluffy for Iron Fists as they are usually lots of "guardsmen" with siege equipment and then an elite force of Iron Fists prepared for specific scenarios).

Glad to see IG BB with Tau. I'd still rather see Eldar and DE being BB. I'd rather SoB be BB with SM to represent the most optimal relations. Especially sense Black Knights are now back in the SM codex. Makes things simpler and also would work for Salamanders that have fought back to back with Sisters.

And that's about all for my opinion.

EDIT: Actually, I'd also say make IG and Nids Desperate Allies. fluff wise it would be like the genestealer cults fighting for the Nids but having to stay apart lest they get eaten as well. Also, glad to see Nids BB with nids!

I actully didn't chage the IG/CSM-CD thing at all . Although with the new legion of the damned mini-dex coming out it won't be much of a problem, but I think I should do the switch for traitor gaurd.
Desperate allies does sound a bit better for Nid/IG.
I was kind of iffy on the eldar/DE because they don't really like eachother that much, it would knd of make sense for them to reman BB.
What, templars are now part of C:SM? Dammit, I need to change stuff then.

Derp. I meant Lost and the Damned. I was just reading about the legion of the damned

Yeah I'm also a bit iffy on Eldar and Dark Eldar. I kinda tossed it around as well between that and allies of convenience before settling on BB (I think I just like that joke that no matter how much they dislike each other, they are both brothers )

Black Templars are kinda odd... They have actually been re-rolled back into the SM codex. As for what they use, I'm pretty sure they use the SM alliance chart nowadays but I am not entirely sure (I know that a while back there were arguments over which to use for example).

I'd possibly say Space Wolves as desperate allies with the SoB, since the two have outright fought in the past and have very different, even opposing mannerisms. So them working together might not go so smoothly.

 StarTrotter wrote:
Disagree with IG with CSM and Chaos Daemons. They should be BB to represent the Legion of the Damned (as cultists really can't do the job. It's not perfect but Ig allied is the closest one can get. Particularly sense that would be fluffy for Iron Fists as they are usually lots of "guardsmen" with siege equipment and then an elite force of Iron Fists prepared for specific scenarios).

Eh, if we're going for a lore-friendly allies matrix, I'd say that it should just focus on Imperium-aligned IG rather than traitor ones. Becuase if you've got those, then why not renegade Space Marines, or any other variant of a faction that has a different set of loyalties? The IG being able to ally with Chaos thing is really just for the benefit for fans of the Lost and the Damned, and doesn't really reflect the mindset of the standard Imperial Guard.

Maybe give Lost and the Damned their own column, if you want to represent them. Just my take on it, though.

 StarTrotter wrote:
I'd rather SoB be BB with SM to represent the most optimal relations.

But then, optimal relations aren't always going to be in effect. The two do have their distrusts of each other, so I'd say that allies of convinience is about right. Sure, some chapters will get along quite well with the Sisters, but on the whole that tension will still be there.

Updated the matrix. I may just add "use the black Templars' line in the matrix" to the bugfix to solve some issues.

Oh derp forgot all about Space Wolves and SoB 6.9
My shame is a flaming fire. I must repent for my sins!

I get what you are saying, but that's why I say its better to just go the whole yard. Why throw a stick to Chaos for the Lost and the Damned by giving them allies of convenience before yanking it away by making it only battle brothers? It's not like GW will ever make the lost and the damned again (Forgeworld did make a khornate and nurgle themed lost and the damned force which is allowed to bb with chaos) so I think that it wouldn't be that bad to go the whole entire way. Simply put, I find it rather silly that, out of all the forces of chaos, the two least common are the only ones represented. It'd kind of be like the Imperium having SoB, SM, and GK but not having IG as a possibility. Finally, it honestly makes more sense for a CSM to lead a squad of "traitor guardsman" than a SM commander leading IG rather than his own marines.

In the end, I always feel like it is best to take note of the best possible situation rather than the worst. It's more of a personal opinion on where to situate it rather than just going, because 1/2 of the CSM don't like chaos daemons, they can only be allies of convenience.

Tyranids should be Battle Brothers with everyone except Daemons and Necrons because of these bad boys: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cortex_Leech#.Uw2kF_mSyrg

D'aaaaaaaw.... No no. Daemons, Necrons, and all SM that don't wear helmets . Actually, I'd love to see that in the Nid codex xD. Something like a unit that against any normal creature that doesn't have the daemon special rule or reanimation protocols, can be taken over. Mwahahahaha!

Don't forget to make CSM and SoB BB, to represent sabathiel. /trollface

Link is still broken for me.

Oh, also, props to OP for giving SoB BB with Black Templars. Even though Templars now use the SM column (the Inquisition codex had its own allies table, on which the Templars were removed), that's always nice to see. The ultimate religious nutters team-up!

 StarTrotter wrote:
I get what you are saying, but that's why I say its better to just go the whole yard. Why throw a stick to Chaos for the Lost and the Damned by giving them allies of convenience before yanking it away by making it only battle brothers? It's not like GW will ever make the lost and the damned again (Forgeworld did make a khornate and nurgle themed lost and the damned force which is allowed to bb with chaos) so I think that it wouldn't be that bad to go the whole entire way.

Just, for me, the Lost and Damned thing seems more like a consideration for the fans of that faction rather than a purely fluff-based take on it. A way to say "oh, here's a way to sort of play this old army with a current army" type thing. That's why I suggested a separate column, so the average IG could be better represented rather than an offshoot that's basically broken away from being IG at all.

But, again, just my take on it.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Link is still broken for me.

I can see it by right clicking on the broken image icon and then clicking view image. Try that.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Link is still broken for me.

Huh, I thought I fixed it. I'm at school so I can't actully do anything, but try either right clicking and saying "open image" or quoting and coping URL.

(Also, if a friendly mod around could see if I copied the webpage instead of the link that would be amazing ).

Eldar and Dark Eldar should be battle brothers, they are kin and despite there differences they work together fairly often in the fluff. Examples being an Eldar Autarch cutting off a planets space ports then leaving the planet to his DE allies, Dark Eldar working with Eldar and Harlequins to eject TS out of the Webway, Dark Eldar helping Iyanden against the Orks, Dark Eldar working with Corsairs who are working with rangers, Webway port (not Commarragh) where all Eldar work in peace, Dark Eldar moving to live within a craftworld as an aspect warrior. The list goes on.

While they may not see eye to eye on everything, they do on enough, notably how they are the superior race, that hey should be battle brothers.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Eldar and Dark Eldar should be battle brothers, they are kin and despite there differences they work together fairly often in the fluff. Examples being an Eldar Autarch cutting off a planets space ports then leaving the planet to his DE allies, Dark Eldar working with Eldar and Harlequins to eject TS out of the Webway, Dark Eldar helping Iyanden against the Orks, Dark Eldar working with Corsairs who are working with rangers, Webway port (not Commarragh) where all Eldar work in peace, Dark Eldar moving to live within a craftworld as an aspect warrior. The list goes on.

While they may not see eye to eye on everything, they do on enough, notably how they are the superior race, that hey should be battle brothers.

I think they are, or did I not upload the updated one?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Eldar and Dark Eldar should be battle brothers, they are kin and despite there differences they work together fairly often in the fluff. Examples being an Eldar Autarch cutting off a planets space ports then leaving the planet to his DE allies, Dark Eldar working with Eldar and Harlequins to eject TS out of the Webway, Dark Eldar helping Iyanden against the Orks, Dark Eldar working with Corsairs who are working with rangers, Webway port (not Commarragh) where all Eldar work in peace, Dark Eldar moving to live within a craftworld as an aspect warrior. The list goes on.

While they may not see eye to eye on everything, they do on enough, notably how they are the superior race, that hey should be battle brothers.

They would rather ally with their own kin than with anyone else. All eldar are extremely proud, xenophobic and arrogant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 StarTrotter wrote:

Simply put, I find it rather silly that, out of all the forces of chaos, the two least common are the only ones represented. It'd kind of be like the Imperium having SoB, SM, and GK but not having IG as a possibility. Finally, it honestly makes more sense for a CSM to lead a squad of "traitor guardsman" than a SM commander leading IG rather than his own marines.

In the end, I always feel like it is best to take note of the best possible situation rather than the worst. It's more of a personal opinion on where to situate it rather than just going, because 1/2 of the CSM don't like chaos daemons, they can only be allies of convenience.

So true. IG, not AM should be BB with CD and CSM. Perhaps they need to make a restriction, like no special characters or something but AM being BB with CSM without ability to take special characters makes a lot more sense than AM being allies of convinience with yarrik.

For things appearing in a variety of flavors, like SM or IG, there needs to be a parenthetical qualifier. Like SM (using CT: Black Templars) are BB with the SOB, but SM (using CT: ReasonableMarines) are Desperate Allies (or something like that).