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I like marines and I like fliers. I don't like painting millions of troops.

Gw's recommendation? Dwarves. I've quickly looked over the box sets, but I've not bought anything.

I like punchy, risky lists that thrive on manoeuverability. I'm very much in the early stages of planning.

So, Dakka. What's hot these days in the dwarves front?

Assume absolute stupidity on the rules front, as I'm new to WHFB.

 Tigurius wrote:
manoeuverability.

Well, you've picked the slowest army. Unlike 40k, not everyone has the same movement in fantasy and dwarf infantry has one inch less than most others.

 Tigurius wrote:


I like punchy, risky lists that thrive on manoeuverability.

Good luck getting manoeuverability out of the most static army in the game. You can pull some outflanks with a unit of miners, but generally its castle up and wait. The new release adding more shooting units just adds to this style of play.

Maybe it's time to try a new style of play.

I did a lot of gunline lists for 40k.
What about those helicopters? Those look fun.

 Tigurius wrote:
Maybe it's time to try a new style of play.

I did a lot of gunline lists for 40k.
What about those helicopters? Those look fun.

Been a long time since I used one, but you can use the steam cannon for blatting small units and for march blocking people but that does rather tie into gunlining. Def good for zipping off and flushing people out.

You could probably build a fairly tough and armoured fighting army with the selection of troops available, but you are going to get out moved by quicker troops (everyone else!). But with a solid couple of block marching up the field it'd be good fun. Maybe slayers on the flanks to tie people up.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Good luck getting manoeuverability out of the most static army in the game.

Red_Zeke seemed to do it just fine. Sure, they have a low Movement, but between Strollaz, an Anvil, and always being able to March, the old book was deceptively fast if you put your mind to it.

I'd love to see Zeke's thoughts on the new book.

Copters are good for drawing out goblin fanatics inside the enemy lines, where they will do the most good.

Maneuverability you say? Well for that you would need cavalry....sadly dwarves cannot ride horses for they have short limbs and round bodies.

Im just joking tho haha
40K is WAY different than Fantasy though. Much less about shooting and more about magic and combat. Good luck tho and I hope you enjoy fantasy!

p.s I wonder if they just suggested Dwarves because it is the latest release?

Army Book. You just brought a Dwarfs Army Book.

As for what to buy, if you're looking for manoeuvrability in a dwarf list, you're going to need a Gyrocopter or three. Aside from that, you can pretty much add what you like, though war machines, rune priests/lords and hanmerers are among the best choices in the book.

 The Shadow wrote:
Army Book. You just brought a Dwarfs Army Book.
.

Codex / Army Book = same thing. Makes no difference outside of pedantry.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

Good luck getting manoeuverability out of the most static army in the game.

Red_Zeke seemed to do it just fine. Sure, they have a low Movement, but between Strollaz, an Anvil, and always being able to March, the old book was deceptively fast if you put your mind to it.

I'd love to see Zeke's thoughts on the new book.

Anvil doesn't let you get free moves anymore

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Army Book. You just brought a Dwarfs Army Book.
.

Codex / Army Book = same thing. Makes no difference outside of pedantry.

To me, it is a question of identity. WHFB is a minority game, and a minority in this forum, ever fearful of the repressive 40k section that weighs down on us, literally, metaphorically and ecumenically. I am a stoic guardian of this identity, struggling against the poisonous 40k references that seek to infiltrate our noble institution. When someone calls an Army Book a "Codex", to me is more than mere, wanton blasphemy, it is an infringement of our rights that threatens to incarcerate our identity and liberty. It makes all the difference.

/definitelyaveryseriousrant

So... what good troop choices are there? Or elites?

 The Shadow wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Army Book. You just brought a Dwarfs Army Book.
.

Codex / Army Book = same thing. Makes no difference outside of pedantry.

To me, it is a question of identity. WHFB is a minority game, and a minority in this forum, ever fearful of the repressive 40k section that weighs down on us, literally, metaphorically and ecumenically. I am a stoic guardian of this identity, struggling against the poisonous 40k references that seek to infiltrate our noble institution. When someone calls an Army Book a "Codex", to me is more than mere, wanton blasphemy, it is an infringement of our rights that threatens to incarcerate our identity and liberty. It makes all the difference.

/definitelyaveryseriousrant

OMGEXALT

 The Shadow wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Army Book. You just brought a Dwarfs Army Book.
.

Codex / Army Book = same thing. Makes no difference outside of pedantry.

To me, it is a question of identity. WHFB is a minority game, and a minority in this forum, ever fearful of the repressive 40k section that weighs down on us, literally, metaphorically and ecumenically. I am a stoic guardian of this identity, struggling against the poisonous 40k references that seek to infiltrate our noble institution. When someone calls an Army Book a "Codex", to me is more than mere, wanton blasphemy, it is an infringement of our rights that threatens to incarcerate our identity and liberty. It makes all the difference.

/definitelyaveryseriousrant

Yep.

So, first off (only slightly in the vein of Army book vs Codex), all of the slots are called something different, and army composition is completely different. There's Lords and Heroes (two slots) that comprise the "HQ" section. You have to have one character from one of those two slots to be your general. You are allowed 25% of your total points from each of these slots. This does mean that you could have 50% of your points be in characters from these two slots, but that would be unwise. At 1k points you will probably have 1-2 characters. At 2k, 3-4. Then you have core. That is like the troops choice; again it's based on percentages. At LEAST 25% of your army has to come from your core selection. Also, all armies have to have at least three units, not counting characters. Next up, forget about Fast Attack, Elite, and Heavy Support; these are known as special and rare. Special can make up up to 50% of your army, and rare can be up to 25%. That should catch you up to speed...

Longbeards are going to be your core (troops). They are superior enough to the regular warriors that they are worth the points and having fewer models on the table. Thunderers and quarrelers are pretty much to taste; crossbows have a slightly better range vs AP (at least I think that's the difference, I keep forgetting).

I definitely think you should get 3+ gyrocopters/bombers. They're cute; just like the stormtalon.

They're also the most maneuverable models you'll have.

For Rare, I think you should try out miners for their outflanking ability. I think they're pretty sweet. If you want to have some real shooting, take Irondrakes. This is one of the new units. It is possible to give them a runic banner (rune of slownessx2) that will make it very hard to charge them...since their special rules say they are allowed to stand and shoot regardless of how close the enemy is, they should get a lot of out-of-turn shooting attacks. Oh, Stand and Shoot is like overwatch.

Phew. Hope all those words help.

can longbeards be basic troops in the new list or do they still have the 1 for 1 requirement with warrior units?

Basic choice now.

 spyguyyoda wrote:
So, first off (only slightly in the vein of Army book vs Codex), all of the slots are called something different, and army composition is completely different. There's Lords and Heroes (two slots) that comprise the "HQ" section. You have to have one character from one of those two slots to be your general. You are allowed 25% of your total points from each of these slots. This does mean that you could have 50% of your points be in characters from these two slots, but that would be unwise. At 1k points you will probably have 1-2 characters. At 2k, 3-4. Then you have core. That is like the troops choice; again it's based on percentages. At LEAST 25% of your army has to come from your core selection. Also, all armies have to have at least three units, not counting characters. Next up, forget about Fast Attack, Elite, and Heavy Support; these are known as special and rare. Special can make up up to 50% of your army, and rare can be up to 25%. That should catch you up to speed...

Longbeards are going to be your core (troops). They are superior enough to the regular warriors that they are worth the points and having fewer models on the table. Thunderers and quarrelers are pretty much to taste; crossbows have a slightly better range vs AP (at least I think that's the difference, I keep forgetting).

I definitely think you should get 3+ gyrocopters/bombers. They're cute; just like the stormtalon.

They're also the most maneuverable models you'll have.

For Rare, I think you should try out miners for their outflanking ability. I think they're pretty sweet. If you want to have some real shooting, take Irondrakes. This is one of the new units. It is possible to give them a runic banner (rune of slownessx2) that will make it very hard to charge them...since their special rules say they are allowed to stand and shoot regardless of how close the enemy is, they should get a lot of out-of-turn shooting attacks. Oh, Stand and Shoot is like overwatch.

Phew. Hope all those words help.

Whoa, all your words are very helpful.
So, the backbone of my army will be longbeards, and I'll add fun units accordingly. Assuming I'll follow this advice pretty solidly, what HQ should I opt for?

For games of 1K or less I would suggest either a runelord or a thane for your generals. While at 1,500+ points Belgar Ironhammer is an auto include as your general. I would then follow up in the heroes section with a runesmith or a thane with BSB, possibly both. Maybe another Runesmith to boost your anti-magic.

Yeah, magic is powerful enough in the game that I heartily suggest that you stick with the Runesmith/Runelord plan to start with.

I actually think Warriors are better than longbeards for one reason - they're the only "cheap" unit in the book. For 9 points, you get a T4 4+ model with a shield and 5+ parry for one turn. They're weak, sure, but point for point better than Ironbreakers as long as you support them with stubborn. Even with great weapons they're 10ppm, which is insane for a model striking at S6 on the charge with T4. Combine with possible Hatred and they're very scary core, if a bit worse than some armies. All longbeards really get more is immune to psychology, panic reroll bubble and S4 which is steep for 50% extra cost on an LD9 army.

Warriors and Longbeards are both good.

Hammerers are pretty stupid good.

Ironbreakers are 3+/5+ not bad. Only 1 attack but since infantry can only support 1 it doesn't matter much. A true anvil--in melee.

War machines are still all awesome.

Irondrakes are now added to the world of Elite Shooters. I only had Leadbelchers and Flamers in there before. It's hard to say who is better. Leads can put a hurt in a small footprint, but I think irondrakes are more cost-effective. Stupid torpedo!

The helicopters are decent. 6+3 copters can really be a lot of super duper fast moving templates.

 The Shadow wrote:
Army Book. You just brought a Dwarfs Army Book.

Sigmar you took my line XD

Any who If you want a maneuvering army Dwarfs are not a good fit for you look into Wood Elves. That being said Wood Elves have a steep learning curve and are out dated but rumors are they will get a new army book this year.

So if you decide to stick with Dwarfs (which I recommend you do they are a great way to learn.) the new "army box" is a good place to start. Also you can still find models from the battle of skull pass on ebay so that will give you a good way to stock up on warriors, thanes, and cannons.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Warriors and Longbeards are both good.

Hammerers are pretty stupid good.

Ironbreakers are 3+/5+ not bad. Only 1 attack but since infantry can only support 1 it doesn't matter much. A true anvil--in melee.

War machines are still all awesome.

Irondrakes are now added to the world of Elite Shooters. I only had Leadbelchers and Flamers in there before. It's hard to say who is better. Leads can put a hurt in a small footprint, but I think irondrakes are more cost-effective. Stupid torpedo!

The helicopters are decent. 6+3 copters can really be a lot of super duper fast moving templates.

Also with irondrakes you get a innate 6+ ward save and 2+ vs flaming.

Then you have a small cannon for 20 points to take with them.

Ironbreakers are my FAVORITE unit. I run the anvil in my lists, give the ironbreakers 2+ Armor saves, I was in combat for 4 turns against 40 bloodletters (I had 23 ironbreakers and two heroes) I lost 4 total by the end of the game.