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Hello ya'll,

I had just purchased and received Horus Heresy Massacre, but I have not purchased Betrayal. I want to start a pre-Heresy Word Bearers army so I chose to skip out on the first book, but I wonder if I had made a mistake. The rules in the second book for Word Bearers are Fast Attacks and Elites but where are the rules for troop choices? Are the standard rules for a Tactical Squad in the first book? Do I use a 40k GW codex? How do I proceed?

Thank you.

The first book contains all the basic legion data.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The first book contains all the basic legion data.

To Elaborate, much like how the Sentinels of Terra, Farsight Enclave, etc. Supplements may add a few new units and some rules to "Flavor" your army more toward the theme you're going for, you still need the codex.

Horus Heresy Books 2 and further are all "supplementary", that is, they will include legion-specific units and rules to tack on to your Legion Army to make it specifically represent the Legion you are going for.

Horus Heresy Book 1 is the codex-equivalent. It has the full Legion Army list, as well as all the rules and wargear entries that are needed to run a Horus Heresy Legion list, regardless of the specific legion you choose.

Thank you for the further clarification. I kind of think I should abandon the hope of a pre-Heresy army while in the financial situation I am in. I will just expand on my BAs. I was really hoping to start purchasing some FW minis but considering the price + shipping, BA rumors, I think I will just wait.

Well, you have actual rules and the best models available from Forge World for a Horus Heresy Word Bearers list. Keep in mind that 30K is significantly different then 40K, and in games of less then 2000 points, you might be at a disadvantage against a 40K army. Above 2000 points, the Word Bearers should pull ahead sin a significant way (mainly because of Lords of War choices).

On the other hand, you can continue to work on your Blood Angels in anticipation of their new codex- which we really don't know when it's coming. If it's already in done, then it was written for 6th Edition. Too bad we're about to get 6.5/7th edition. Not good odds it'll be all that good. There is precedence that this has happened- the new Warhammer Fantasy Dwarfs army book has a publishing date of 2012... meaning it was probably written and play tested before the current edition of Fantasy came out. GW has a record of bad codex books right after a new edition of the game is released, while the last codex of the previous edition is usually the most powerful.

Last nail in the coffin for the Blood Angels is that they have been portrayed as an assault army, and assault is dead in 40K. The first and last assault army codex- Tyranids- is a steaming pile of crap. Oh, people are able to use it, but the idea of an endless horde of bugs running across the table and getting into close combat is a bust. Now, it's all about monstrous creatures and some little bugs that are required due to the FOC. My Blood Angles have changed dramatically since 5th Edition. I went from lots of assault squads, Rhinos, Jump Packs, and Death Company to a couple librarians, lots of Sternguard in Drop Pods, Devastator squads, and flyers. I just can't bring myself to fielding bikes and gravguns. /shudder

What I'm trying to say is that the Word Bearers are a known quantity, while the future Blood Angels are unknown. GW has not been very nice to Space Marines in this edition, and I don't think that will change with the Blood Angels. The Word Bearers will be way more expensive though.

I disagree about 30k being in any way behind 40k.

Now, I dont know the ins-and-outs of 30k armies, but I've seen a bit of the Admech army (was considering to delve into it)

And unless the Admech army in 30k is broken like hell, then 30k armies are far superior to their 40k counterparts.
The 30k admech would crush 40k armies at any point range with ease when they have their castallax MC troop squads, and "crisis suits en mass" thllarax (also troops)
Unless I am missing something massive, there is quite a power gap.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I disagree about 30k being in any way behind 40k.

Now, I dont know the ins-and-outs of 30k armies, but I've seen a bit of the Admech army (was considering to delve into it)

And unless the Admech army in 30k is broken like hell, then 30k armies are far superior to their 40k counterparts.
The 30k admech would crush 40k armies at any point range with ease when they have their castallax MC troop squads, and "crisis suits en mass" thllarax (also troops)
Unless I am missing something massive, there is quite a power gap.

If you're talking about fluff, I agree with your post. The equipment and sheer army sizes of the 30k dwarf the 40k.

If you're talking on the table top, the 30k stuff generally has a higher point cost to the 40k stuff. The 30k Space Marines also don't have And They Shall Know No Fear, which hurts.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I disagree about 30k being in any way behind 40k.

Now, I dont know the ins-and-outs of 30k armies, but I've seen a bit of the Admech army (was considering to delve into it)

And unless the Admech army in 30k is broken like hell, then 30k armies are far superior to their 40k counterparts.
The 30k admech would crush 40k armies at any point range with ease when they have their castallax MC troop squads, and "crisis suits en mass" thllarax (also troops)
Unless I am missing something massive, there is quite a power gap.

I own and play a 30k Admech army, rather than just having 'seen a bit of it'. I'm also a fairly competitive 40k tournament player.

I can tell you that they can't match top tier lists like Eldar Beastpacks/Seer councils, or WS/Gravstars, but they are balanced for tier-2 play.

Admech lists are incredibly reliant on their Magos HQs, who can't hide in squads because they're not ICs. Myrmidons are amazing, but still not as shooty as Centurions. Admech have no way to get ignores cover, re-rollable 2+ saves and they have massive mobility problems.

The points costs comparitively to each other are simply wonky. Some things in 30k are significantly undercosted for what they can do on a 40k battlefield, while others are significantly overcosted. It happens when you are more or less writing a different game style and are worried more about internal balance than externally, and personally I think it's awesome.

@LibertineIX: If you plan on doing some Horus Heresy stuff, get friends to go in with you. It's really the only way to do it. My FLGS is planning on having our players pool some money together to get the first 3 books all at once, when the 3rd one is released. Considering it's not exactly 40k compliant (you can play it against 40k armies but the power levels will just be all over the place), it's best if you have other 30k players to play against.

I have been playing with a guy at my local GW and his 30k marines are having a hard time against my BAs at the 1500 and below point scale.

Unfortunately, I am the only one that wants to field a 30k army, the aforementioned friend has only downloaded PDFs so he'd rather use a 40k codex for ease and cost. Aside from him, nobody else has any interest in 30k.

This is something that will require hard thinking and contemplating.