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So, I am considering putting together a game that has three-four whole armies going against one single high-powered unit. I believe that the most universally hated ultra-powerful creature in 40k is an unbound C'tan (meaning a beast opposed to every single race. Necrons, though they occasionally use bound C'tan, would be scared shitless of a real one).

So, I want this thing to both be killable yet also to be able to hold its own for at least four turns against three-four 1850-2000 point armies.

What, in your opinion, would such a beast look like points and model wise?

It would look like a Transcendent C'tan.

/Thread

 Lucarikx wrote:
It would look like a Transcendent C'tan.

/Thread

I'm afraid that's not correct. While a Transcendant C'tan is many hundreds or even possible thousands of Shards, a still living, unbroken C'tan would still be more powerful.

The model itself wouldn't really be all that massive, maybe a tad bit bigger than a Transcendant C'tan but its stat line would be ridiculous. The Necrons Codex says that the Necron's had to build world shattering weapons specially designed to break the C'tan.

I could really see the model having 10's all across the board for stats with a 2++. You're talking about a being that is immune to the naturals laws of the universe.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
It would look like a Transcendent C'tan.

/Thread

I'm afraid that's not correct. While a Transcendant C'tan is many hundreds or even possible thousands of Shards, a still living, unbroken C'tan would still be more powerful.

The model itself wouldn't really be all that massive, maybe a tad bit bigger than a Transcendant C'tan but its stat line would be ridiculous. The Necrons Codex says that the Necron's had to build world shattering weapons specially designed to break the C'tan.

I could really see the model having 10's all across the board for stats with a 2++. You're talking about a being that is immune to the naturals laws of the universe.

I agree. Further, I don't think that it is even kind of realistic to think that a single Transcendant C'tan could hold off three-four full 1850 points armies. That's 5,550 points at minimum.

I'm thinking of having there be some sort of "Shackle Array", maybe four objectives in corners of the board which must be controlled for a full turn to activate. Once activated, they can reduce the effectiveness of the C'tan or alternatively can be used to "control" him for a turn to unleash destruction against the other armies. Once all arrays have been activated the C'tan would be severely weakened.

Thoughts on that line? Obviously this is meant to be a fun one-off type of game.

Considering these are some of the most powerful creatures in the matirium having 10's across the board. I would expect something like this.

Ws 7 Bs 7 S 10 T 10 W 10 I 6 A 7 Ld 10

With normal gargantuan creature rules as well as strength D attacks,some.cool flavour rules and a lot of nice attacks. Really destructive ones to, for example.

Dimensional cascade
Place a 9 inch blast marker anywhere on the table, this then scatters 4d6 inches, with a hit reducing the amount scattered by half. Any model touched by this template is removed from play on a 2+, this include vehicles MC's and terrain pieces. Models with eternal warrior are removed in a 4+.

Or cosmic apocalypse
Every unit on the table must roll a die and on a 6+ Every model in that unit takes a strength eight Ap 3 haemorrhage hit.

They should he really powerful unit breaking attacks, he is a C'tan after all.

Another angle you can take, as opposed to raw stats, which kinda gets silly after awhile, is to build scenario-specific rules around it.

To spring off of themad's idea, have something on the table that can start to contain the C'tan, with increasing levels of debuffing the thing until it is managable. Just to throw it out make it like:

0 "Controllers" active - C'tan cannot be hurt, period. Immune to all attacks and removal effects.

1 Controller active - C'tan can be hurt by Strength D and Instant Death effects, but can only suffer a max of 1 wound from such attacks. And has IWND 3+

2 Controllers active - C'tan is T10, 3+ invul and IWND 4+. Poison or any weapon that wounds on a fixed value needs a 6+

3 Controllers active - Transcendent C'tan stats and saves


Make it so that in order to use a controller, a unit must start its turn on it and be there for a full turn, and they can be blown off of it and reduce the effects on the C'tan.

 curran12 wrote:
Another angle you can take, as opposed to raw stats, which kinda gets silly after awhile, is to build scenario-specific rules around it.

To spring off of themad's idea, have something on the table that can start to contain the C'tan, with increasing levels of debuffing the thing until it is managable. Just to throw it out make it like:

0 "Controllers" active - C'tan cannot be hurt, period. Immune to all attacks and removal effects.

1 Controller active - C'tan can be hurt by Strength D and Instant Death effects, but can only suffer a max of 1 wound from such attacks. And has IWND 3+

2 Controllers active - C'tan is T10, 3+ invul and IWND 4+. Poison or any weapon that wounds on a fixed value needs a 6+

3 Controllers active - Transcendent C'tan stats and saves


Make it so that in order to use a controller, a unit must start its turn on it and be there for a full turn, and they can be blown off of it and reduce the effects on the C'tan.

I just typed up an idea that is similar to this. Let me know what you think.

It also includes the crazy rules proposed by Alex!

So, let's go from there.

The Living C'tan

Ws 7 Bs 7 S 10 T 10 W 10 I 6 A 7 Ld 10 Sv 2+

Special Rules:

Living God

A C'tan is a living god that bends reality itself. It cannot be easily defeated by even the most powerful weapons in the known universe.

A Living C'tan's save is invulnerable, and it has the Eternal Warrior special rule.

If the C'tan is unshackled, it may reroll it's saving throw. It may also regenerate one wound at the start of it's movement phase on a roll of 3+.


Ethereal Transcendance

A Living C'tan is unbound by the laws of time and space. It doesn't so much move as phase in and out of realspace. It is impossible for mortal beings to predict or comprehend where a C'tan will be at any point in time.

A Living C'tan may move up to 24" in it's movement phase. It is unaffected by any and all terrain. It may begin or end its movement within difficult or dangerous terrain with no penalties, and disregards all positive or negative implications of mysterious terrain. The living C'tan may also disengage from combat at any point in time during it's own movement phase.

An unshackled C'tan may make an additional 3d6" movement in it's assault phase. It may still make a standard assault move in addition to this move.


Shatter Self

The Living C'tan may attempt to fragment it's own form in order to give birth to a lesser avatar of the god's untouchable might.

Once per turn during it's movement phase, The Living C'tan may voluntarily take a wound. If it does so, it may place a C'tan Shard under it's control anywhere within 6+2d6" of itself. The C'tan Shard has two wounds, but is otherwise identical to C'tan shards in Codex: Necrons. Powers for the C'tan Shard are chosen immediately when it is spawned.

If a C'tan is unshackled, any C'tan Shards generated in this way are spawned with their full four wounds.


Unworldly Might

A Living C'tan wields power that lesser beings cannot even fathom. To face a Living C'tan on the battlefield is to face a power that can blink out even the stars.

The Living C'tan may manifest three of the following powers in it's shooting phase if it is unshackled, two if it is shackled. The attacks may each be directed at different targets. It may not use the same attack twice in one shooting phase.

-Dimensional Cascade
Place a large blast marker anywhere on the table, this then scatters 3d6 inches, with a hit reducing the amount scattered by half. Any model touched by this template is removed from play on a 2+, this include vehicles MC's and terrain pieces. Models with eternal warrior are removed in a 4+.

-Siphon Sun
Draw a straight line from the C'tan to the edge of the table. Any units touched by that line take 2+D6 Strength 8 AP1 Melta hits. The "Melta" bonus is always in effect for this attack. Until the C'tan's next shooting phase, the rules for Night Fight are in effect.

-Zone of Unbeing
This attack is resolved as a s10 AP1 blast weapon with 72" range. After the attack has been resolved, leave the blast marker on the table. Any unit with 12" of the blast marker is pulled 2+d6" towards the blast marker at the start of their movement phase. If a model touches the blast marker, it immediately takes a s10 ap1 hit.

-Cosmic Apocalypse
Every unit on the table must roll a die and on a 6+ Every model in that unit takes a strength eight Ap 3 haemorrhage hit.

-Gargantuan Cataclysm
All units within 12" of the Living C'tan take a Strength 7, AP3 hit.

-Illusory Nightmare
If there is one or more C'tan Shard anywhere on the table, the Living C'tan may immediately switch places with one of them.


Strength of the Stars

A Living C'tan barely recognizes even the most resilient armour.

All of a Living C'tan's close combat attacks are resolved at Strength D.

In addition, if the living C'tan is unshackled, it may make one additional attack for each hit it makes in close combat. These subsequent hits do not generate further hits.


The Dying God's Cry

If a Living C'tan is unshackled when it takes its last wound, every unit on the table takes 2d6 Strength 9 AP2 hits.




The Orrery Of Obedience

The Ancient Necrontyr developed arcane weapons that were specifically meant to bind and destroy a Living C'tan. The Orrery of Obedience is one of the last remaining weapons of this kind, and is still able to harness the unearthly energies that were once used to break the power of the C'tan many millions of millenia ago. Such a weapon grants the user the ability to destroy a C'tan, or else to bind it to his will.

The Orrery of Obedience is made up of four shackling nodes. Each is positioned at one corner of the table. In order to use the Orrery of Obedience, a unit must come into base contact with a shackling node and stay there until the beginning of their next turn. If for any reason the unit is not able to keep at least one model within base contact with the node for a full turn the Orrery will not activate.

If a unit is able to maintain base contact for the stated amount of time, the Orrery activates and the Living C'tan is shackled. In addition to diminishing the power of the C'tan, the unit that controls the node may attempt to either bind or shatter the C'tan. These are resolved immediately at the start of the controlling players turn, before any moves are made.

If the unit chooses to shatter the C'tan, the Living C'tan immediately takes D3 wounds with no saves of any kind allowed. If the unit that controls the node continues to remain in base contact with the node, the player may shatter the C'tan again during his next turn.

If the unit chooses to bind the C'tan, then the player controlling that unit may take control of the C'tan for the rest of his turn. That player may move and use the C'tan's powers according to it's shackled state, however the player may not make assault moves or assaults. At the end of the player turn, the C'tan is able to overcome its binding. However, if the unit that controls the node continues to remain in base contact with the node, the player may bind the C'tan again during his next turn.

If at any point during the game four units are all simultaneously in base contact with the four separate shackling nodes for a full turn cycle as described above, the C'tan is immediately eliminated from the galaxy, shattered into innumerable shards that will be enslaved for eternity. It is removed from the table, and does not use it's "Dying God's Cry" rule.