Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I bought a Beastman army and played my first game last night. I'm a 40k player at heart but my biddy talked me into it. So here is what I noticed I liked and disliked. I am also aware this is after 1 game so these are first impressions and likely to change with more games played.
I played a 2500 Beastman vs Vampire Counts game. The guy I played took a friendly list so it was competitive.
Pros:
1. We got a alternating deployment mission which I loved. The rules for deployment and first turn were good. Better then 40k. I don't know if all missions are that way but I liked that.
2. First 2 turns went pretty quick. Alot of positioning and preparing.
3. Magic was neat. Alot of cool effects.
4. Heroes and Lords. I felt I could really kit characters out better then in 40k. I really liked making my own "custom" doombull.
5. I saw immediately how movement has got to be the most important phase of the game. Setting charges and moving chaff to block charges was neat. Very cool strategy piece missing from 40k.
6. Didn't seem to be as many USR's to remember and fight over( lol 40k guys will get this).
7. Refreshing breath of air from 40k. I love 40k. I am not a hater of GW or the game. It was nice to change it up though.
8. I dare say this but the rules seemed a little cleaner. Once again first game but we only encountered a couple times where we stopped to check rules.

Cons:
1. Terrain. I love terrain. Love it. The more the better. It sets the narrative for me. We played with 5 terrain pieces total and 1 LOS blocking one. It frankly seemed flat to me. I like to look at a board and "see" why a battle would be fought there.
2. While movement was insanely important. I found it pretty boring and static. The wheeling and reforming did zero for me on a personal level.
3. Magic while neat was almost too random. I went 2 full rounds falling all 4 spells due to poor WoM rolls. Luckily my opponent rolled bad to.
4. Turns 3-5 took foooorrrrreeeeevvvvveeerrrrr.. Once we got locked in combat it seemed to take longer oddly enough. Maybe it was just my perception. Maybe its because I was new.
5. I can see that Heroes and Lords are probably to powerful in alot of cases. I watched Vlad and my Doombull run ruff shod through a couple 30-40 man units. They did it with ease. Reminded me of 2nd edition 40k.

So overall I had fun. It was a cool game. Please keep in mind I'm a grown man who realizes these are first impressions and may not be actuals to the game. So let me know how far off or on I am.

Not too much off.


Alternating deployment is common, however there is one scenario that uses deploy all at once and then try to steal init.

Terrain depends really on what you have available, I typically have about 6 small pieces and a big piece on my tables.

The Movement phase is important, yet I can see how it doesn't bring a lot of love. But once you get to be able to set up and expect certain movements based on what you do, makes the movement phase a whole lot of fun.

Some armies can mitigate the randomness of winds, beastmen can take shard of the herdstone.

Combat can get complex and time consuming epically if you are new.

Lords and heroes are not terrible. It's not quite hero hammer like 2nd ed 40k. But you guys did have some serious close combat beasts out on the table. It seems as though you guys passed on the lvl 4's.

you're pretty much spot-on

Terrain is quite dense if you follow the BRB rules for placement, be aware that terrain doesn't do a lot except if you fully randomize it and end up with "crazy blood-drenched castle of d00m" and such things

Even Close Combat is really fast once you're used to it
of course, it helps immensely when you know the stats for most of the models in the game (I'm still very very frustrated when someone doesn't know his own army ...)

Glad you liked the game it is for sure fun stuff!
I am just going to address the cons you mentioned lol

Terrain for sure depends on how much is available. I always play with D6+4 pieces of terrain so I get lots of terrain on the board which makes the game more tactical. It does get difficult to maneuver the board with to much terrain though due to the fact that you have movement trays filled with 20-50 guys so sometimes it gets hard to squeeze between pieces of terrain.

Once you get used to the wheeling and stuff it will go quick for movement. When I started I got confused how to move properly since I came from 40k.

Magic is random but you get used to it and it is a huge part of the game not like in 40k where the pysker abilities are boring, bland and generally useless. Fantasy has SO many lores and spells and it just take a while to figure out how it works best in certain situations.
Often it can be useless though and it always sucks when you roll terrible for Winds of Magic while your opponent rolls double 6's and aces the channeling rolls.

Combat.....Yes combat is super time consuming at this points level especially since you both took horde like armies. Once you get used to the stat lines of your army and opponents you can pretty much roll like a mad man and get it done fast. It is a big change from 40k though. I used Space Marines and Tau as my first armies so never went into close combat......then went to Skaven which is a ton of CC haha

At 2500+ points the lords and heroes tend to get pretty over the top in my opinion. Taking teclis for HE is just ridiculous when you can choose 1 spell from EVERY lore in the book. I don't think it is much about the combat guys because you can just issue a challenge with your beafed out Lord and mess him up, it is more about to high powered mages etc.

P.S Good to see someone take up Beastmen though! They aren't the most popular so nice to see someone starting them!
I think Fantasy is a better game in my opinion and I am always happy to see a new player in the game since 40K takes up most of the games. Funny that I have 3 40k armies and 1 Fantasy armies and my Skaven are the Main army in all the games I play haha

Thanks guys. Yeah he did take Vlad and Manfred (sp?). One was LVL 3 and the other LVL 1-2 I don't recall. He told me it was the weaker version of him I remember that. He also had Isabella who was LVL 1.
I had 2 LVL 2 shamans with a Herdstone. Turns 3 and 5 were good for me with magic. The other 3 turns weren't good with 1-2 were downright embarrassing.
CC was a lot of dice and me looking into the book non stop. CR was ok. I didn't love the mechanic but I did get the how and why it is that way. It did seem balanced though for the most part. I am assuming all cavalry is really good based off the two units I saw last night.
I got the impression the game is not decided in the deployment phase/first turn as often as 40k.
We rolled for random terrain pieces but not placement. Now in 40k I usually follow the book method (random total and placement) unless its a themed mission of course.
I did like it though. This is by no means a rant against WFB. I was just curious to see how well I grasped the game.
I was pleasantly surprised how different it was. It really isn't the same game just with swords and plate mail.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Glad you liked the game it is for sure fun stuff!


P.S Good to see someone take up Beastmen though! They aren't the most popular so nice to see someone starting them!
I think Fantasy is a better game in my opinion and I am always happy to see a new player in the game since 40K takes up most of the games. Funny that I have 3 40k armies and 1 Fantasy armies and my Skaven are the Main army in all the games I play haha

Thanks for the feedback too. I dig those Beastmen sculpts. I know the fluff isn't "deep" but I dug the savage no redeeming quality they had. I play Eldar in 40k and the Beastmen were so radically different and awesome sculpts (ok razorgor is poo poo). I also like that they were a chaos army that wasn't "spikey" (40k guys will get that). Even though the interwebz tells me Beastmen are 2nd worst to WE's that's ok because I read once that not everything on the internet is true lol.

Ya it is always good to go with an army that is way different than your 40k army gives you a much different field.
I agree about the Chaos not being Spikey....that is why I don't like Chaos in 40k haha Skaven are closely related to Chaos but its sort of a mystery as to how related it actually is. Beastmen have some nice sculpts for most of their stuff I agree (minus minotaurs and razorgors)

Wood Elves are awful but can be played well if you know what you are doing, I would say Beastmen are better than Brets aswell though.. Beastmen are just not the greatest due to lack of armour really in my opinion. I read on the webs that in Q4 of 2014 either Skaven or Beastmen will be updated possibly so who knows how that goes haha

Yes that's the biggest thing is that the Game is not won in turn 1 very often. A comeback when things look bleak is always possible with fantasy as opposed to 40k.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Terrain for sure depends on how much is available. I always play with D6+4 pieces of terrain so I get lots of terrain on the board which makes the game more tactical. It does get difficult to maneuver the board with to much terrain though due to the fact that you have movement trays filled with 20-50 guys so sometimes it gets hard to squeeze between pieces of terrain.

You have to remember that people used to 40k would see that as a threadbare field. In 40k, the recommendation of the book on a 6x4 table (which is the standard for both 40k and fantasy) has 1D3x6 pieces of terrain, so that's 6-18 pieces, and hills are very commonly not used, so there's a lot of obstructive terrain. And even with that type of roll-off terrain deployment available, I see most people opting for having a third party set up narrative terrain instead (that's how my group mostly does it.) And then you just keep building until you've covered half the table.

All I'm saying is, when he talks about wanting to see the table as a battleground, he's probably not talking about 8 pieces of terrain on average.

In 40k, you can have tables look like this, and it's just all the better to play on (although it'll make you pull out the BRB or roll off on a lot of shoddy rules as terrain rules are sloppy at best in 40k.)


If you have a lot of room and a whole bunch of spare time on your hands, you could build a table that looks really narrative and still only has a few pieces of terrain blocking the armies. If you make the whole board a cobblestone city, for example, with a few shops/houses spread out, it's still gonna meet the requirements I think Lobby is after.

Something like this would make me salivate to get to play on, and this has a few more houses than it would actually need.

Fair enough but 18 pieces of terrain on a 6x4 board for a 2500 point game is alot because it restricts movement to much. Even in 40k I use the same amount of terrain sometimes more. But the to each their own.
Just some quick math, most of the terrain I use averages about 8x8 inches that's 640 square inches for 10 pieces. The board is 3456 square inches so that's 20% of the board covered by terrain (round up) I think that's lots for a 2500 point game.

Once again everyone plays differently with varying sized terrain.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Just some quick math, most of the terrain I use averages about 8x8 inches that's 640 square inches for 10 pieces. The board is 3456 square inches so that's 20% of the board covered by terrain (round up) I think that's lots for a 2500 point game.

If that's Fantasy I agree that's a good solid amount of terrain. If it's 40k, you're either playing Tau, Eldar or Taudar to like that, because that's WAY too little and perfect for gunlines

I have 7 pieces of LOS blocking terrain that are all at least 8-9" high and 6" or larger at the base. I have another 40 pieces of area terrain. I can literally cover an entire board with terrain. It is a must for 40k.
That being said I see where larger terrain in fantasy is more a hindrance then a tactical necessity. Its a absolute must have in 40k. You cannot win some games unless you can hide. Tau/Eldar come to mind. I play Eldar I know this is true.
Its just a difference between the two games. That's all and when you think about it. It makes total sense, In sword and board times you fielded large armies and needed wide open spaces to maneuver. If you look at wars in the last 40 years though. Bullets hurt, best place to hide from a bullet is where you cannot be seen to be shot.
Its just a difference between the games "I" need to adjust to. Its not a game fault or problem just a way its played. That's all. I'm sure a WFB guy would see one of my tables and ask "how in the f*%k am I supposed to move around?" lol
Good feedback guys thanks a lot. I am planning my next game as we speak.

Good points all round mostly.

Yeah, pretty much the only thing I prefer about 40k over Fantasy (game availability aside) is Terrain. A 40k board with loads of terrain looks fantastic, feels fantastic and plays fantastic as there's a whole new tactical element, especially if there's plenty of LOS-blocking around. It's not quite the same in fantasy, you can't crowd the board without making the game clunky. Terrain does work fine in Fantasy but doesn't quite have the same positive impact on a game as it does in 40k.

So question for you gents. Is it considered bad form to use alot of minotaurs? I really dig the sculpts. I bought 4 more boxes of them. Them seemed pretty good in my only game. They also seemed completely killable. My question is are they cheese? I don't want to show up at the game store and be "that guy". My buddy doesn't care but I really dislike cheesy stuff. I play Eldar in 40k so I'm overly sensitive to other Eldar players using douche net lists outside of tournament play.
So is it bad form to bring 15-16 minotaurs to a friendly game? I'm asking because I don't know.

Minotaurs are not cheese. The "Minobus" is also a common Beastmen army list that focuses on a big unit of them and some Doombull and Gorebull characters and it is nasty. But at T4 and virtually no armor they are not cheesy an any sense of the word. So have at 'em (plus if anyone calls you cheesy playing Beastmen then you've done your job right)

I've played on that table that Purifier linked and the gaps between the buildings are actually quite large. The roads are wide enough for a 10-wide 20mm base unit (not 25mm though). It was one of my favorite games ever. I do agree though that fantasy terrain needs help. I miss 7th where forests and rivers would slow you down and be a general pain. It added more tactics to the game that the random terrain just doesn't.

Well, you just need to apply the most important rule of the WFB.
It is a game, and noone forces you to play according to the rulebook. If something feels wrong, oveerpowered, boring, orstatic, just change it and make it more balanced. Inside the core book and the 15 army books, me and my friends have changed at least 25 rules the last year we play.
For example:
You want more terrain? Put 500 pieces of terrain.
Heros/Lords too strong? Increase their costs, reduce their attacks, remove specific uncounterable skills.
Magic too random? Roll 4D3 or 3D3+3 orwhatever combination you want.
Just adjust the rules, if you have the time test your ideas, I'm sure you'll love it the end.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can also try some unofficial but interesting and armies, google warhammerarmiesproject

 lobbywatson wrote:
So question for you gents. Is it considered bad form to use alot of minotaurs? I really dig the sculpts. I bought 4 more boxes of them. Them seemed pretty good in my only game. They also seemed completely killable. My question is are they cheese? I don't want to show up at the game store and be "that guy". My buddy doesn't care but I really dislike cheesy stuff. I play Eldar in 40k so I'm overly sensitive to other Eldar players using douche net lists outside of tournament play.
So is it bad form to bring 15-16 minotaurs to a friendly game? I'm asking because I don't know.

Not bad form at all. There is an army in the game where nearly every model has at least T4 and 3W after all.

You're right Cthuluspy. I forgot about OK. They have cool rules but ugly models (to me). They are basically Minotaurs as core right?

I have a tough time seeing anything Beastmen as cheese. They have so few good options IMHO.

 lobbywatson wrote:
So question for you gents. Is it considered bad form to use alot of minotaurs? I really dig the sculpts. I bought 4 more boxes of them. Them seemed pretty good in my only game. They also seemed completely killable. My question is are they cheese? I don't want to show up at the game store and be "that guy". My buddy doesn't care but I really dislike cheesy stuff. I play Eldar in 40k so I'm overly sensitive to other Eldar players using douche net lists outside of tournament play.
So is it bad form to bring 15-16 minotaurs to a friendly game? I'm asking because I don't know.

Not cheeey in the least. I think they are a fair and solid unit that wrecks face, but can be diverted.

 lobbywatson wrote:
You're right Cthuluspy. I forgot about OK. They have cool rules but ugly models (to me). They are basically Minotaurs as core right?

Yep. Whole army of monstrous infantry.

Thanks for the help guys. I just don't know proper WFB etiquette yet. Anything else that's considered a poor form?

 Cirronimbus wrote:
I've played on that table that Purifier linked and the gaps between the buildings are actually quite large. The roads are wide enough for a 10-wide 20mm base unit (not 25mm though). It was one of my favorite games ever. I do agree though that fantasy terrain needs help. I miss 7th where forests and rivers would slow you down and be a general pain. It added more tactics to the game that the random terrain just doesn't.

So jelly. What did you play?

My Vampire Counts versus a friend's Dark Elves... 3000 points. We also decided not to enter any of the buildings to make it more interesting.

I'd like to see the Minotaur horde on the table sometime. It's pretty expensive but I think it would look really cool.

Where was that table located at? That's hot. I dig that. Thanks for the info guys. Glad to know I can roll deep with Minotaurs and not get invisible knives thrown at me.

It's at Warhammer World in Nottingham, England. It's usually open too since a lot of people don't like how crowded it is. There's also an epic table with a ruined High Elf tower on it that looks amazing.

You bought 2500 points in one go? Envy...

Yeah I bought about 3300 points from a guy on Bartertown. His name was Dan Benevidez(sp). Rock solid trader shipped fast no mess no muck.
Then I grabbed another 4 boxes of Minotaurs, 2 Doombulls and a Ghorgon.
I got the main force for $440 American. Its about 40% off retail stateside from what I could guess.
83 Gors, 40 Ungors, 20 Raiders, 6 Minotaurs, 53 Bestigors, 5 Centigors, 3 Razorgors, 5 Bray Shaman, 2 Beastlords and something else Im forgetting.
I wanted to get into fantasy small but 1k games didn't look fun to me. No different then when I play 40k. I prefer 2250 and up anything smaller then that and your just playing a game.of point efficiency.

 lobbywatson wrote:
Yeah I bought about 3300 points from a guy on Bartertown. His name was Dan Benevidez(sp). Rock solid trader shipped fast no mess no muck.
Then I grabbed another 4 boxes of Minotaurs, 2 Doombulls and a Ghorgon.
I got the main force for $440 American. Its about 40% off retail stateside from what I could guess.
83 Gors, 40 Ungors, 20 Raiders, 6 Minotaurs, 53 Bestigors, 5 Centigors, 3 Razorgors, 5 Bray Shaman, 2 Beastlords and something else Im forgetting.

I wanted to get into fantasy small but 1k games didn't look fun to me. No different then when I play 40k. I prefer 2250 and up anything smaller then that and your just playing a game.of point efficiency.

I know that feel when you get the itch to make the army big in one go.
Just for the nostalgia I wanted to buy a Skaven model, so looking at the IoB box, I thought the warlord looked fantastic. Bought him and thought "nice, a ratman. Been so many years."
... Then I got stuck on ebay.

200~ clanrats/slaves (I don't know how large portion will go to each yet. The idea is 80 clanrats, rest for slaves.)
40 plague priests
3 Warlords (both of the Games Day ones)
A custom palanquin I made from an old pewter screaming bell that is magnetised to allow any of the warlords (also magnetised) on it
1 Warlord on Bonebreaker (a second IoB warlord on that rogre everyone uses for it.)
3 Engineers
20~ giant rats
12 Gutter runners
5 jezzail teams
1 Screaming bell
2 Warp lightning cannons (pewter)
2 Doomwheels (pewter)
5 Warpflamethrowers (at least one of every generation. I love the old treasures you get when you just buy an old box of random Skaven miniatures off of ebay.)
2 Helpit abominations (neither GW, though, as I find that model wanting)
1 Ratling gun
5 Rat ogres
8 Packmasters
Custom movement trays for everything
a couple of fillers for clanrat/slave units.
And even two buildings. One Skullvane Mance and a third party village house.

I'm itching to get some gnoblar for a mixed race slave unit, and some Storm vermin, I'm just holding myself back trying to convince myself not to do it before everything else is painted.
I haven't even tried to count at where that puts me in points.

I love it Purifier!! I seriously thought. I'll get 2 battalion sets and a box of minotaur's. I won't go crazy like I did with my Eldar....
I'll go slow right?? Do it the right way... Not like I did with my Eldar...
Now I think I have about 4k worth of Beastmen and all I keep thinking is I need a few more things... Kill me lol

 lobbywatson wrote:
I love it Purifier!! I seriously thought. I'll get 2 battalion sets and a box of minotaur's. I won't go crazy like I did with my Eldar....
I'll go slow right?? Do it the right way... Not like I did with my Eldar...
Now I think I have about 4k worth of Beastmen and all I keep thinking is I need a few more things... Kill me lol

The joy of of being an adult with a job and purchasing power rather than being a child on an allowance.