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Say I have a bunch of Stealth Suits with a 'Vre carrying the homing beacon.

Instead of infiltrating, they either outflank or deep strike.

In any case, I perform this move first, BEFORE I let a unit of Crisis suits deep strike. So when the Crisis arrive on the table, the Stealth suits are already there. Thus, can they use the homing beacon?

You might argue everything happens simultaneously and thus this would violate that rule, but in the rule for the homing beacon on p69 of the tau codex it doesnt say something along the lines of "if the homing beacon is on the battlefield at the start of your turn..."

reserves are before movement thus it's invalid. It's the same deal with the teleport thingie for space marines.

 phatonic wrote:
reserves are before movement thus it's invalid. It's the same deal with the teleport thingie for space marines.

how does that violate it?

Only the locator beacon of the space marine codex specifically states that it has to have been on the battlefield at the start of the turn, in order to be used. I.e. in this case you have a wargear description specifically imposing a restriction. They wouldnt have written this if it was understood that these devices never work after arrival from reserve as a general rule.

Exactly reserves fall down at the same time accordin to the rulebook page.124 pretty much tells it how you toss a dice for each unit and so on.'

And this.

P125 second paragraph in bold

"Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve."
I dont know how it's stated in the tau codex but as the SM codex they can't due this not being mentiond.

 phatonic wrote:
P125 second paragraph in bold
"Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve."

By that logic, the inertial guidance system of every drop pod everywhere just stopped functioning, cause that sure as heck can't be used any at other time, than at the start of the turn in which the pod deep strikes. It could also be used to mean that the turn they arrive, the immobile rule on drop pods does not work Also nothing would disembark when they land because that is another rule that can only happen during that time frame.

All of these are either special rules, or abilities of the drop pod. The drop pod entry in the SM codex doesnt ever say "these special rules/abilities are to be used at the turn the drop pod enters play, despite the restriction on p.125 of the warhammer 40,000 rulebook."


Also another argument supporting the homing beacon - if it can be used at other times (which is can, since it is an ability that is constantly in effect), then it is not an ability the has to be used at the start of turn, and is therefore not restricted by the pg125 rule.

The exact wording of the Tau homing beacon is this: "Friendly units arriving by deep strike do not scatter as long as the first model is placed within 6" of a model with a homing beacon."

 phatonic wrote:
Exactly reserves fall down at the same time accordin to the rulebook page.124 pretty much tells it how you toss a dice for each unit and so on.'

I couldn't find out where on p.124 it says they arrive at the same time. The only time "arrive together" is mentioned, is regarding an IC that has joined, and is arriving with a unit.

If everything happened simultaneously in 40k, then Firewarrior squad B would not be able to use a markerlight fired by Firewarrior Squad A onto a target to benefit from an improved BS.

With that wording it's abit confusing i can understand why the question is brought up in the first place. i would say it's a 50/50 agree with the TO Opoment whatever before the game(s) Might try poke the GW question center

As for the drop pod it explains in it's own rules how it works regarding to P125. ¨unless stated otherwise¨

I believe the homing beacon does work, as the only condition is that the deep strikers arrive within 6" of the model with the beacon. If this were not intended then the beacon would have the same clause as the teleport homer which specifically states that they cannot use it. Also events that happen simultaneously are worked out in order as chosen by the player whos turn it is I think, (ie casting scriers gaze) so the tau player can deploy the stealth team, then deploy any additional crisis teams within 6" to avoid scatter

your turn starts before any reserves arive. there fore it has to be on he board for a turn before you can use it

The Tau homing beacon doesn't have text requiring it to be on the board at the beginning of the turn, so the rule on pg. 125 doesn't apply.

Page 124 specifies that units arrive from reserves one at a time, in an order of your choosing.

If your stealth suits and crisis suits successfully roll for reserves on the same turn, you can DS the stealth team first, then use their homing beacon to precision DS the crisis suits.

Personally I believe it to be an oversight and if Game Workshop hadn't abandoned the idea of Errata, or was good at it to begin with, we would of seen it corrected a long time in the past.
My Reasoning is simple: They are far too cheep for the added benefit.

The functioning of this piece of war-gear is identical to several different piece of war-gear spread out through other factions, so we have many precedent cases to look at. All these other Beacons have a sentence stating that the Beacon has to be on the field at the start of the turn for any model to benefit from it's abilities. There is nothing explaining why the sentence was removed from the Tau, and if it was deliberate then it would be good to have an explanation as to why, so the possibility of an oversight is plausible. More so when you take a look at the other differences between the two Beacons, or in particular the lack of one specific differences I would expect in this situation: Price.

Price of a piece of equipment or unit has always been a pure crunch element, literally existing to be nothing more then a 'game balance.' If the Tau Beacon was meant to be better then everyone else, and there is cinematographic grounds for it, there would still be a price difference between the two. The Tau Beacon would be more expensive to take into account the fact that it gives more flexibility by allowing a near perfect drop of the entire army without fore-warning being given to your opponent. This has not happened, leading me to really question the intent of the writer on this one.

Phatonic;
Page 125 is a mess to begin with, good try on stretching it further.

One of the reasons I hate page 125 is this page coined the 'start of turn' phase, when prior to deployment it had not at all been mentioned in the book and that was the problem. The lack of a Start of the Turn phase and the use of this terminology has brought many people to these forums with confusion on when this point in the time line occurs. It required a Frequently Asked Question answer just to try and explain that 'Start of the Turn' and 'start of the Movement Phase' are the same point in the time line, and many people have taken this to mean the terms are interchangeable. If the terms are not interchangeable, then we end up in a situation where either page 125 breaks the game completely or is 100% pointless.

On top of that is a debate what does and does not meet the requirements of page 125 to begin with:
Some on the board believe that only Special Rules with the terminology 'at the start of the movement phase' trigger the restriction
Some on the board believe that all Special Rules and Abilities are 'forbidden' during this period of time

Personally, I am on the side that only abilities which have the terminology 'at the start of the movement phase' are effected by page 125.
This is two fold, first is the inclusion of the word must. within the rule itself while the second is the practical application of both interpretations on the field.

The inclusion of the word must creates a unique trigger, and like all triggers if something does not meet it's requirements then the Rule can not be applied. The terminology 'at the start/end of X' is used to pin something to a point in the time line, so only Rules which contain this terminology have evidence that they can only trigger during that period in time. Lacking any such terminology creates a situation, no matter how near a zero percent chance it might have, where the Rule in question might be used outside of the restricted time line. That is enough to stop it from meeting the 'must be used during this time' trigger and prevent page 125 from applying to that certain Rule.

The Practical Application stems from looking at how interpretations play out on the field, so they are personal opinion, but I have a lot of questions concerning how certain rules would even function if page 125 is a blanket 'all abilities can not be used till after this point' restriction. There are Rules which must be used by units coming in from Reserves, but none of these Rules inform us that they are exempt to page 125 so they could not be evoked and usable during this period in time. Other rules exist to give a unit an immunity or flexibility throughout the entirety of the game, for example beasts have an Ability to move 12 inches while Monstrous Creatures are Immune to Dangerous Terrain Tests, and these too would be restricted without any real good explanation as to why.

Then there is the question of, if no ability can be used regardless of terminology within:
Does the Rule have to be one assigned to the unit coming in from Reserve or are they forbidden from using any abilities regardless of the source?

Cause page 125 simply state they can't use any ability during this period of time!
It doesn't give us an exception stating a unit coming in from reserves can use rules found on third party models during this period of time.
...So Homing Beacons could never be used...