Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The USR refers to unsaved wounds whereas vehicles have hull points. Are vehicles therefore not affected by ID or am I missing something?

Instant death does absolutely nothing to vehicles because vehicles do not have wounds.

 Peregrine wrote:
Instant death does absolutely nothing to vehicles because vehicles do not have wounds.

Or a Toughness stat to compare weapon Strength to, in case you're thinking of ID due to a hit of twice Toughness or higher.

Vehicles do get Explodes results from time to time though, which is their vaguely equivalent mechanic. So, unless the weapon triggers an explosion, the vehicle sticks around.

Ok many thanks for the confirmation. By the same logic however, does this mean a Wave Serpent isn't affected by the Ignores Cover USR due to having hull points rather than wounds?

There is some contention there.

One side says no, Ignores Cover applies to Wounds and vehicles do not have wounds.
The other side says, vehicles take cover saves against hits the way non-vehicles do against wounds. How does a non-vehicle model take a cover save against Ignores Cover?

 Happyjew wrote:
There is some contention there.

One side says no, Ignores Cover applies to Wounds and vehicles do not have wounds.
The other side says, vehicles take cover saves against hits the way non-vehicles do against wounds. How does a non-vehicle model take a cover save against Ignores Cover?

Is there an actual rule regarding the second position or is this generally just HYWPI for most people? I know for instace there is a specific FAQ regarding Vector Strikes which states that cover saves cannot be taken against them, which is subtly different to having the Ignores Cover USR due to the wounds/hull points distinction.

There is an actual rule stating that vehicles take cover saves against hits the way non-vehicles do against wounds, yes.

I would point out, though, that most units and vehicle shot with a Shokk Attack Gun with the correct roll can be removed from play. While this is not "Instant Death", it's functionally similar enough to it I think it warrants a mention, especially because the FAQ explicitly says it applies even if the unit is immune to Instant Death.

I don't know any other exceptions though offhand.

rigeld2 wrote:
There is an actual rule stating that vehicles take cover saves against hits the way non-vehicles do against wounds, yes.

Do you have a page reference so I can look it up?

 Tonberry7 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
There is an actual rule stating that vehicles take cover saves against hits the way non-vehicles do against wounds, yes.

Do you have a page reference so I can look it up?

BRB FAQ

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
There is an actual rule stating that vehicles take cover saves against hits the way non-vehicles do against wounds, yes.

Do you have a page reference so I can look it up?

BRB FAQ

Can you be more specific? I can't see it in the FAQ.

Because it isn't in the FAQ

"If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it must take a cover save against it, exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a Wound" - BRB, page 75.

Thanks PrinceRaven. I can see the argument that vehicles don't get cover saves from ignores cover weapons based on that statement, even though it isn't explicitly stated that hull points are synonymous with wounds with regard to the Ignores Cover USR.

Well, how do non-vehicles take cover saves against weapons with the Ignores Cover USR?

They don't.

also referring to an earlier question, there is one instance where vehicles taking damage is equivalent to causing wounds (ID still doesn't apply obviously) and that is in combat results vs a walker.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
also referring to an earlier question, there is one instance where vehicles taking damage is equivalent to causing wounds (ID still doesn't apply obviously) and that is in combat results vs a walker.

Pretty sure you meant "any vehicle" instead of walker.
In most cases it only makes a difference in walker combat, but it's important for Chariots as well.
Also some wargear or rule might also exist that causes damage to a unit in combat with a tank for example (can't think of one, but the possibility is there).

no, read closer bud :p

a walker can sweep and lock you in combat (forgot about chariots so it applies there too) so any damage you inflict on the walker counts towards your combat resolution to see if you run away.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
no, read closer bud :p

a walker can sweep and lock you in combat (forgot about chariots so it applies there too) so any damage you inflict on the walker counts towards your combat resolution to see if you run away.

I know that, I'm saying it's not a a walker only thing. It's for any vehicle (including walkers).

In theory, if a tank had some wargear that caused damage during the fight sub phase, and the unit caused no "wounds" the tank would win combat. Obviously it can't sweep... But the unit could run away.

True silver armour possibly causes damage? (GK vehicle upgrade)

I use it a lot to force a morale check a lot greater than I could otherwise - assaulting a transport and a non vehicle unit, causing 2 or 3 pens and a -4 -:> -6 on top of the morale check can be deadly, and depending on target easier than causing wounds to the actual unit.

Ah great! I was struggling for an example, thanks.
So a Psyker hits a Rhino, but fails to damage, suffers a wound in return from the armour. Looses combat by 1, flees from the Rhino

Tau flechettes discharger and HH Anbaric claws too

Don't Fletchettes trigger on the charge? A bit like Overwatch?
Would they count for combat result?

Flechette Discharger hits are resolved at Initiative step 10, so they should count towards Assault Results.

 grendel083 wrote:
Don't Fletchettes trigger on the charge? A bit like Overwatch?
Would they count for combat result?

Yes, because it happens during the assault phase, at initiative 10.

@Ouze: Another exception to removing things from play that are immune to Instant Death is Dire Swords. Unit who takes a wound to it has to take a leadership check or get their soul ripped out, removing them from play. Only time you ever really see it played is Asurmen because it's not worth it's points on a regular Dire Avenger Exarch, but exceptions to the rule are exceptions to the rule.

SRSFACE - t o be more accurate, they count because they occur during the FIght! sub-phase. Just occuring during the assault phase is not sufficient.