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Is there a reliable way for Daemons to deal with AV14 ie Land Raiders without using CSM allies for meltas etc?

Screamers armourbane attacks seem more suited to light/medium armour.
Be'lakor can be effective using mêlée but with the disadvantage of ending up on the ground.
The Change powers could be useful but the random strength issue makes them unreliable.
Vector strikes just aren't powerful enough.

I can't think of any other options at the moment but surely there are some better choices.

Monstrous creatures in close combat. Or you could kill everything else instead.

Yep Smash attacks would be a pretty good choice. But then your FMC is on the ground which might not be great if you want to take out the LR early on.

PB's , nuff said.

Flying monstrous creatures are one of the fastest and hardest hitting anti-armour units out there.

Multiple Str 10 attacks with re-roll armour pens and AP2? What more do you need?

Just cover the MC on the ground with grimoire or invisibility to give them some protection.

In my history of playing daemons you have multiple ways of killing AV 14 vehicles. Plaguebearers are a good one since they can glance anything to death on a 6. The MC's have a pretty good time at it with their smashing and whatnot. My favorite is to book fateweaver and let him land and try and smash the vehicle down. It does make him vulnerable, but a 2+ rerollable invuln save means either the other player is going to waste a ton of shots on him to maybe kill him, or they will ignore him. Downside is he hits moving vehicles on a 4+

Daemon Prince smash attacks... easy peasy. Also a slaanesh lash Prince with iron arm has 2d6 strength 9 shots.

icefire78 wrote:
In my history of playing daemons you have multiple ways of killing AV 14 vehicles. Plaguebearers are a good one since they can glance anything to death on a 6. The MC's have a pretty good time at it with their smashing and whatnot. My favorite is to book fateweaver and let him land and try and smash the vehicle down. It does make him vulnerable, but a 2+ rerollable invuln save means either the other player is going to waste a ton of shots on him to maybe kill him, or they will ignore him. Downside is he hits moving vehicles on a 4+

You are far better off using a normal Prince to do this than Fateweaver. Fate can very easily fail to kill a vehicle due to his terrible stats in assault. Probably the biggest issue though is that no one is going to pass up the chance to assault him, even just locking him in combat is a win for your opponent as it disrupts an important pivot point of your army (you need to stay in range of any buffs he has etc). If they put something half decent into combat with him then you are also committed to keeping the Grimore on him (and no failing it), as without that 2++ there are plenty of units which can deal with him. A Prince on the other hand can handle itself in assault and short of 50 man blob tarpit should fight his way out of most problems.

icefire78 wrote:
In my history of playing daemons you have multiple ways of killing AV 14 vehicles. Plaguebearers are a good one since they can glance anything to death on a 6. The MC's have a pretty good time at it with their smashing and whatnot. My favorite is to book fateweaver and let him land and try and smash the vehicle down. It does make him vulnerable, but a 2+ rerollable invuln save means either the other player is going to waste a ton of shots on him to maybe kill him, or they will ignore him. Downside is he hits moving vehicles on a 4+

Why would you ever want to put Fateweaver anywhere near a situation where he can be shot at, nevermind in assault range where he is one of the single suckiest units on a point per point basis?

There is also soulgrinders, perhaps with warpgaze.
I would not recomend them in a competetive setting, especially compared to mostrous creatures.
To be honest they usually blow up early on because the opponent is happy to find an AV target in a daemon army.

Still they pack some tankbusting options for your daemons.

 Elgrun wrote:
PB's , nuff said.

A unit of PBs can kill anything in the game. All this fancy smancy screamerstar and flying MCs. Get 15 plaguebearers on that bugger and watch it fall to the touch of rust. Seriously though, PBs are amazing. You could also use plague drones. However, whatever you kill the raider with, will be assaulted by whatever is inside. daemon troops don't really care. If it is TH/SS, PB or drones will do better than an MC. If it is dual claw TDA, your troops might get hurt. But so what, your ~150pt just killed a land raider.

To the people suggesting PBs....how can your practically get them into contact with a vehicle?

Any decent player can maneuver around them most the time. No running and no fleet means they have to get one hell of a good charge roll to have any hope of catching a vehicle. Plague drones I can see working, as they move at 3x the speed of PBs.

Yeah, its really surprising how often my plaguebearers find themselves in combat. Last week I managed to get the charge off on 5 screamers, twice. 10 plaguebearers took out 10 screamers!
Also had 20 plaguebearers get an assault on wraiths... I guess generally my opponent doesn't think twice about them. Would you worry about PBs when there is a lord of change and 2 soul grinders with fleet and +3" on the run scooting around the board?

Heck no, you are going to avoid the MCs and soul grinders like the plague, that is where the PBs or plague drones come in. Which, drones have no issues catching anything. 12+2D6 is pretty awesome.

Honestly though I would just ignore the land raider. They don't have much firepower. I would just leave it for last.

FMCs are the most reliable bet. A prince on the charge has 4 attacks for smash (assuming he's not doubly armed, which it's 5 then).

My Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle FMC lists have all been able to handle armor without batting an eye. In fact, if I see a bunch of tanks, my Bloodthirsters/Princes/Lord of Change do a little dance of joy.

The vast majority of AV14 kills are smash attacks in CC, flickering fire to the AV10 rear (LRBT equivolents), and CC against AV10/11 rear armour with daemonettes, etc.

Daemons are pretty light on ranged options against AV14 units that have AV12+ rear armour. Against AV11- rear armour CD have the speed and number of shots to strip HP.

Something not mentioned yet but I'm seeing locally is Plague Drones. Same touch of rust ability that PBs have but as jump cavalry. A local daemon player uses them with some princes and he is doing a pretty good job against land raiders and wave serpents alike. They have the mobility to catch anything and with enough of them, you can glance any vehicle to death quickly.

Another thing to snag is the Fleshbane/Armourbane greater reward. I generally take a couple greater rewards on each MC i take and this usually comes up on 1 of my 2-3 MCs

Seekers.

12" move , 6" run. 80 rending attacks on the charge will glance out any vehicle in the game.

Belakor has armorbane.

Seekers/plague drones will glance it out.

Lash princes with iron arm can do something too.

Screamers can get lucky with their armorbane too.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Seekers.

12" move , 6" run. 80 rending attacks on the charge will glance out any vehicle in the game.

How does that go up to AV14?

Mutter wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Seekers.

12" move , 6" run. 80 rending attacks on the charge will glance out any vehicle in the game.

How does that go up to AV14?

Because unless its a Land Raider, its rear is definitely not AV14, more likely 10/11. You still are relying on trying to get a lot of 6s and then the D3s to be good.

Actually, I'm just an idiot. I don't know why, but I was thinking of rending attacks as automatically glancing on a 6.

Its ok we all get new editions confused with the old sometimes.

 ace101 wrote:

Mutter wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Seekers.

12" move , 6" run. 80 rending attacks on the charge will glance out any vehicle in the game.

How does that go up to AV14?

Because unless its a Land Raider, its rear is definitely not AV14, more likely 10/11. You still are relying on trying to get a lot of 6s and then the D3s to be good.

Check the thread's title ...

If you take a lot of characters with greater rewards (say 5 FMC) you'll most likely roll up a Hellfire Gaze or 2. S8 Lance has helped me kill annoying high AV vehicles often enough without having to land.

My suggestion is for you to ask yourself, does it really need to be killed? Most of the time it will come up as no and you can ignore them and hit the right targets.

Essentially options include, in a typical fmc build, Fatey with all Tzeentch powers, Smash attacks, Bel if you take him and the BM if you don't, Grinder DS. Very rarely will PB be able to do anything, but they do have the capability.

The thing is that there really is no AV14 unit in the game (in the rear) that really needs to die against a daemons army. Let your opponent trundle around their giant waste of points and deal with the rest of the army.

Dropping down Be'Lakor to kill a Land Raider is a very bad idea unless it's close to the end of the game and there aren't many more threats.