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I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why anyone would ever buy Flakk Missiles. Even if you've already got ML Devestators sitting around and you need AA, you can get a quad-gun for 10 more points than the 4 Flakk Missile upgrades, and it comes twin-linked interceptor, and doesn't replace your other shots. (Yes, you have to buy an Aegis, but Aegis are great.
They just seem vastly over-priced for their damage output. Against AV11, a Flakk Missile will cause 1/3rd of a Hull Point, with a 1/18 chance to kill a Flyer. So with 4 Missiles, you've still only got a tiny chance. Against AV12 (In ither words, Helldrakes and Vendettas), you cause 1/9 of a Hull Point and have approaching zero chance of killing it.
Once you consider the cost, the pitiful damage output, and the vastly better alternatives... Why wiuld you take Flakk?

Because my army's heavy support squads can lob 10 of them around in a shooting phase?

To forge the narrative about your devastators shooting hopelessly at a heldrake with missiles that cant hurt it.

Real reason, GW writers have this tendency to include a plethora of crap options. IG alone has vox casters, grenade launchers, shotguns, mortars and missile launchers.

If you don't have an aegis and u're totally sure that the opponent will bring an av10-11 flyer that can hurt you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

IG alone has vox casters, grenade launchers, shotguns, mortars and missile launchers.

vox casters are actually quite useful when you have a 50-strong blob.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
To forge the narrative about your devastators shooting hopelessly at a heldrake with missiles that cant hurt it.

Real reason, GW writers have this tendency to include a plethora of crap options. IG alone has vox casters, grenade launchers, shotguns, mortars and missile launchers.

Well I've actually found grenade launchers to be fairly useful... Use them like a "poor man's plasma " when fighting Tyranids and I want to cram as many men and special weapons into my Mech list. Saving 15 ish points per squad adds up rather quickly over time

Because most anti-air options are expensive for the likelyhood they will cause any real damage and were probably balanced around the idea that your opponent was bringing 1-2 flyers.

The problem with vox casters is that you need one for each squad and they do not extend the reach of the orders. By the time you reach 5 squads equipped with them you could buy another CCS which would unlock more BS4 goodness and allows you to give orders from another point on the table.

A good fix for vox casters would be that you could issue orders from any vox caster on the table but thats not here nor there.

As for grenade launchers they face the issue of being small blast template lasguns. You can achieve similar effects by issuing FRFSRF. For 5 more points you can get a meltagun thats a lot stronger with far better AP.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The problem with vox casters is that you need one for each squad and they do not extend the reach of the orders. By the time you reach 5 squads equipped with them you could buy another CCS which would unlock more BS4 goodness and allows you to give orders from another point on the table.

I'm not talking about all the squads. Just 1-2 vox casters for a 50-strong blob. Personally i'd like to insure that such a valuable unit WILL recieve an order.

If you really want flyers dead 4 Imperial fist devastators with flakk missiles, a quad gun, a bolter devastator manning it and a sergeant to gibe one model BS5 is pretty good.

Plus with flyers being a thing it makes sense from a fluff perspective that Marines have access to MANPADS. If the option wasn't there people would ask why the marines didn't have something like that.

Maybe for some reason if you have a tactical squad down field covering an objective.

I think it's more for the "My army has missile launchers but 6th edition included fliers. I don't want to HAVE to have an aegis line".

Boom. Now your regular devastators have an option to shoot down fliers with.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why anyone would ever buy Flakk Missiles. Even if you've already got ML Devestators sitting around and you need AA, you can get a quad-gun for 10 more points than the 4 Flakk Missile upgrades, and it comes twin-linked interceptor, and doesn't replace your other shots. (Yes, you have to buy an Aegis, but Aegis are great.
They just seem vastly over-priced for their damage output. Against AV11, a Flakk Missile will cause 1/3rd of a Hull Point, with a 1/18 chance to kill a Flyer. So with 4 Missiles, you've still only got a tiny chance. Against AV12 (In ither words, Helldrakes and Vendettas), you cause 1/9 of a Hull Point and have approaching zero chance of killing it.
Once you consider the cost, the pitiful damage output, and the vastly better alternatives... Why wiuld you take Flakk?

Because you can also have 4 dudes with Flakk, AND the Quad Gun, AND a 6th dude manning it who benefits from the Signum Link from the sergeant. If 4 shots is good, 4 more is even better.

Obviously they came out to try and counter balance flyers at the start of 6th edition before most of the books got an update.

They get very little use due to their low fire rate, poor, ap and lack of interceptor. Also they are over priced.

The only effective way of taking them imo is with imperial fist devastators, because they are often backfield with a quadgun, and can use both weapons to better effect due to their special rules.

Because MANPADS are a thing.

Unfortunately, 40k MANPADS seem to have failed to consider that 40k aircraft are built like god damn tanks.

I think it's more for the "My army has missile launchers but 6th edition included fliers. I don't want to HAVE to have an aegis line".

Boom. Now your regular devastators have an option to shoot down fliers with.

40pts is abit expensive but very very effective & also you can use them as a regular dev unit when there's no flyers about
there worth the pts if your playing elder ,all those grav tanks are classed as flyers to the flakk missiles

,all those grav tanks are classed as flyers to the flakk missiles

Wut? If by grav tanks you mean vehicles like the wave serpent, then I think you'll find that they are skimmers, and have nothing to do with flyers. The standard krak missile would do more damage.

I don't claim to be a space marine player, so maybe I'm missing something, but giving a Devastator squad 4 missile launchers, making them able to take on vehicles, infantry, and flyers, then having the option to combat squad the unit into two 5 man units w/ 2 ml each seems pretty good for taking on a lot of potential problems in a tourney.

So that players who don't want to buy fliers have a sub-optimal way of combating the induced creep.

don't claim to be a space marine player, so maybe I'm missing something, but giving a Devastator squad 4 missile launchers, making them able to take on vehicles, infantry, and flyers, then having the option to combat squad the unit into two 5 man units w/ 2 ml each seems pretty good for taking on a lot of potential problems in a tourney.

I don't think you can combat sq that way

all the heavies in 1 & all the freds in the other

rockgod2304 wrote:

don't claim to be a space marine player, so maybe I'm missing something, but giving a Devastator squad 4 missile launchers, making them able to take on vehicles, infantry, and flyers, then having the option to combat squad the unit into two 5 man units w/ 2 ml each seems pretty good for taking on a lot of potential problems in a tourney.

I don't think you can combat sq that way

all the heavies in 1 & all the freds in the other

Split the weapons anyway you want. There's nothing that says they have to go into one half.

rockgod2304 wrote:

don't claim to be a space marine player, so maybe I'm missing something, but giving a Devastator squad 4 missile launchers, making them able to take on vehicles, infantry, and flyers, then having the option to combat squad the unit into two 5 man units w/ 2 ml each seems pretty good for taking on a lot of potential problems in a tourney.

I don't think you can combat sq that way

all the heavies in 1 & all the freds in the other

Where in the codex does it state that all heavy weapons must be in the same combat squad?

I don't really see why doing so would be very beneficial. Some ablative wounds in devastator squads can be good, but with split heavy weapons you are buying 6 guys who will be wasted vs most targets, and who would be better placed in troops so they can score.

 Phydox wrote:
I don't claim to be a space marine player, so maybe I'm missing something, but giving a Devastator squad 4 missile launchers, making them able to take on vehicles, infantry, and flyers, then having the option to combat squad the unit into two 5 man units w/ 2 ml each seems pretty good for taking on a lot of potential problems in a tourney.

Other than the fact that MLs really aren't good at killing anything you care about.

To be fair, neither are quad guns, but as our only real option in some armies they still get taken.

S8 missiles are bad at killing tanks. S7 missiles are bad at killing everything. They are in the game because GW has NO idea how to balance a game. No other reason. Atm they are such a terrible point investment that no army should be using them. A quad gun is infinitely better at doing the job thanks to the free TL and allowing a guy who normally doesnt shoot to do so. When you are replacing your bad shooting with worse shooting for 10 points vs targets that are already quite resistant to your fire, you are doing something wrong.

I must admit that initially part of the quad gun's allure was the aegis line. But with Tau (nice cover, brah) and Eldar (we give you your save anyway, it just doesn't matter), the quad gun seems like a very imperfect solution.

I don't really see why doing so would be very beneficial. Some ablative wounds in devastator squads can be good, but with split heavy weapons you are buying 6 guys who will be wasted vs most targets, and who would be better placed in troops so they can score.

ive stopped put heavies in tac squads as you cant move & fire ,it slows you down so much.if you mix them up 2 ML & freds its the same.
also if you position them wrong or get out flanked they get nailed anyway & your left with freds which cant hold objectives

 zephoid wrote:
S8 missiles are bad at killing tanks. S7 missiles are bad at killing everything. They are in the game because GW has NO idea how to balance a game. No other reason. Atm they are such a terrible point investment that no army should be using them. A quad gun is infinitely better at doing the job thanks to the free TL and allowing a guy who normally doesnt shoot to do so. When you are replacing your bad shooting with worse shooting for 10 points vs targets that are already quite resistant to your fire, you are doing something wrong.

Okay. So there is one other person that realizes that krak missiles suck, making the ML suck by extension.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rockgod2304 wrote:

I don't really see why doing so would be very beneficial. Some ablative wounds in devastator squads can be good, but with split heavy weapons you are buying 6 guys who will be wasted vs most targets, and who would be better placed in troops so they can score.

ive stopped put heavies in tac squads as you cant move & fire ,it slows you down so much.if you mix them up 2 ML & freds its the same.
also if you position them wrong or get out flanked they get nailed anyway & your left with freds which cant hold objectives

Holy crap the people in this thread are reading my mind.

Most of the time missile launchers are a bad investment.

The only potentially viable squads I can see are SW longfangs due to their discount price (though they are not all that relevant with regards to flak missiles, as they don't yet have the option), and imperial fist devastator squads behind a quad gun, because their special rules offering better rates of armour pen counter the low str of str 7 & 8 shots.

I love 4ML dev squad ,its my core unit in the middle

it either soaks up all the fire in the 1st 2 turns (to frees up all the other tanks /squads) or it rocks & cause the opponent loads of probs

I nearly always use krak missiles (but mainly play marines)

ive only use Flakk missiles once as I played elder & I knew he was playing with 2 flyers, blow 1 out of the sky straight away very impressed with them

I refuse to buy a hunter / stalker due to price £40 for a rhino with a big gun ,you must be on drugs

so flakk missiles are the only option at the moment