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2014/03/13 15:54:03
Subject: Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
Alright! I'm afraid I'm interrupting what should be my Crucible Battle Reports, to bring you a test report... with the new Skyblight formation for Tyranids. If you follow the forums online, there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth over this formation. It was overshadowed at first by the Imperial Knight, but now people are realizing its supposed power. A brief rundown...
Flyrant
Crone
2 Harpies
3 Gargoyle broods
Each gargoyle brood scores, and cannot be contested. Also, each brood killed returns on a 4+ the next turn.
On to the report!
My list:
Spoiler:
(Yup, proxies... the Tau flyer is a Crone, two empty bases are Harpies)
Warlord Traits: I can make forests carnivorous, he gets a 3d6 jump move.
My opponent wins the roll for turn 1 and elects to go first...
Pre-game:
Spoiler:
My opponent and I both fully expect that I will steam-roll him. My opponent is a good player with a good list, but there are assumptions that the list I'm bringing is broken. So, we're both laughing and having fun, as this is a test, not bragging rights.
Deployment Tau:
Spoiler:
He puts his objective on the far left in a ruin. One broadside unit in each corner and the IA Riptide to the right. HBC to the left, with markerdrones, markerlights and the SkyRay there as well. Then two FW squads are deployed far back in the center of the board, with the third on his objective. Crisis suits will deepstrike.
Deployment Nids:
Spoiler:
See below, 10 gants in reserve, as well as all the Gargs deepstriking. 7 FMCs behind a Bastion...
Tau turn 1:
Spoiler:
He moves little, but opens fire... with his markerlights and ignoring cover, he kills a Warrior and both Harpies, netting him first blood.
Tyranid turn 1:
Spoiler:
Restraint is for the weak! I throw all my MCs forward. I successfully take out all the missile Drones on the right, and his Broadsides ball back. Then, an Onslaughted Crone runs behind his Iridium commander and flames the markerdrones out of existence. More flames and dakka kill a few Fire Warriors and wound the buffmander twice.
Tau turn 2:
Spoiler:
(see below for movement phase)
His HBC riptide and some firewarriors kill one Crone. Then, his Skyray and the Plasmasuits kill the CC Flyrant. Other shooting takes my second Crone down to 1 wound remaining.
Tyranid turn 2:
Spoiler:
I'm close and personal now! One Gargoyle Brood deepstrikes, but an Intercepting Riptide kills 9 of them! The second lands untouched.
One Flyrant shoots a Riptide and assaults it. He loses two wounds, I take one.
The second Flyrant strips a wound off the other Riptide and assaults, losing no wounds in return.
The Gargoyles and a Heavy Bolter kill some Fire Warriors, they will fall back off the board. The last Crone assaults and kills the second Fire Warrior Squad.
Tau turn 3:
Spoiler:
With no real targets, he kills all of the Gargoyles. In CC we beat away at eachother, he has a 3++ on both Riptides.
And here he inflicts two wounds with the Riptide!
Tyranid turn 3:
Spoiler:
I scatter my last gargoyles but avoid a mishap. Sadly, I fail to bring back either of the two broods. I scatter some shots around, but again not much happens.
Tau turn 4:
Spoiler:
He shoots all of my Gargoyles down. In the far right combat, his Riptide AGAIN hits twice, and kills my Flyrant! Holy Crap! I had inflicted only a single wound, as he has been red hot on his Feel no Pains and his Nove charge rolls.
Tyranid turn 4:
Spoiler:
I put my warriors on top of the Bastion, and kill some fire warriors but they pass morale. My gants come on the board on my objective and cower. Then in CC, I wound his Riptide twice. With one wound left, he passes both feel no pains and then proceeds to beat my Flyrant to death! Oh crap oh crap oh crap oh crap!
Tau turn 5:
Spoiler:
His one wound Riptide fails his first Nova Charge, and then makes Feel no Pain. Crap. He kills 6 out of ten gants and pens the Bastion with the other Riptides shot, reducing the Armor value by 2. Other random shots are ineffective.
Tyranid turn 5:
Spoiler:
I am stunned at how this game has gone. All 7 FMCs and all of my gargoyles have been killed beyond resurrection. At this point I have 4 gants, 2 Warriors, and a 1 wound Venomthrope hiding in and behind a lone bastion. With Riptides closing in, I stand up the Barbed Strangler and take a potshot at his last Fire Warrior unit... He goes to ground and only loses one! One short of that sacred morale check... Then, the Venomthrope takes a moment to shoot the Heavy Bolter, killing a Fire Warrior. They fail morale!
I roll, and miraculously the game ends!
Result:
Spoiler:
I hold my objective, while he holds none, and the Relic is not held. He has Warlord, First Blood, and... not Linebreaker! He never quite got his Riptides close enough, leading to a 3-2 Tyranid victory!
Post game analysis:
Spoiler:
Despite the victory, I took a huge beating. All my monstrous creatures dead, all my gargoyles gone... this game was whacky and completely unexpected. My opponent had some luck, passing 9/10 Nova Charges to maintain his shield, and passing more than half of his FnPs while in combat with the Hive Tyrant, plus all of my Gargoyles failing to return. His to hit rolls were also pretty great, in CC his Riptides needed 5s and yet BOTH beat down their respective Flyrants, both of whom started at full health. It was impressive to see Tau blazing away at all the wings, but shocking that it worked! My tactics were pretty poor I think, testing out the new list I acted way too boldly, and most of my FMCs got shot to heck and back. Getting first turn would have been huge, but given this result I must say the Skyblight is not broken... it is good, and with slightly better dice could do VERY well at a tournament, but this is on par with Flying Circus, Taudar, and WraithCrons, not miles above them as some people say.
*Edited because pics were in the wrong place*
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/13 15:58:43
2014/03/13 16:17:28
Subject: Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
I've been having horrible luck assaulting with my flyrants into riptides as well. In my last 2 games against Riptide Tau, despite him needing 5's to hit and striking 2nd, my opponent's riptides have been beating my flyrants in combat. Ironically, I was winning before the assault also (at least in 1 of those games).
I think this game may have turned out differently if not for the dice. But that happens....and it's good to see bugs still take it in spite of some bad luck (any other Tyranid army and they would have probably lost big time).
jy2 wrote: I've been having horrible luck assaulting with my flyrants into riptides as well. In my last 2 games against Riptide Tau, despite him needing 5's to hit and striking 2nd, my opponent's riptides have been beating my flyrants in combat. Ironically, I was winning before the assault also (at least in 1 of those games).
I think this game may have turned out differently if not for the dice. But that happens....and it's good to see bugs still take it in spite of some bad luck (any other Tyranid army and they would have probably lost big time).
Just due to the matchup, I actually think my "normal" list would have fared better. Two Tyrannofex would have been a complete pain in the rear for my opponent, and I could have easily murdered his troops. I still believe that the Skyblight is our best bet, and will test it again. However, I think a Skyshield is needed to defend against the turn 1 alpha-strike. If I had gone first, I believe I win this game by a landslide. Or, if you can limit first turn shooting it will be just as messy. I'm going to hold onto the Bastions for foot Nids, but the skyshield feels crucial for Skyblight in hindsight. I also believe Tau will be the Skyblights top nemesis. Lots of skyfire, ignoring cover, rate of fire, and lots of high strength ap 4 guns are the best things vs the Skyblight. However, they are the only army to have all of these. I believe vs Daemons, Marines, Eldar, Guard, CSM, Orks, etc. the Skyfire will be a massive matchup issue. Only Necrons and Tau have the tools to make it a game...
2014/03/13 17:02:19
Subject: Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
As a matter of fact, I think he may even be under (though I don't have the codex with me currently). Including the bastion, he's at about 1800-pts roughly only.
Automatically Appended Next Post: No....wait, forgot the Adrenals on the flyrants.
So yeah, he's at about 1850 with the bastion.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/13 17:08:38
jifel wrote: Then, the Venomthrope takes a moment to shoot the Heavy Bolter, killing a Fire Warrior. They fail morale!
I roll, and miraculously the game ends!
What...! This was the deciding moment in the game, and it came down to a Venomthrope firing a heavy bolter
I am planning to use a Bastion, but I'm not planning on firing the weapons... I know the old FAQ is no longer valid, but as that was not allowed before I think it's reasonable to not do it... and if I was a TO I'd probably rule that way.
Just my opinion, of course, and it's a funny visual but I don't think I'll be doing that.
Thanks for the report!!
2014/03/13 17:52:26
Subject: Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
jy2 wrote: Deepstriking is a viable strategy. As a matter of fact, I'd recommend you deepstrike 1, maybe even 2 units of gargoyles in Hammer-&-Anvil deployments.
My logic was that a returning garg brood can then deep strike if it started the game that way. In the future I may only DS two broods and let the third go for the relic or my own objectives.
2014/03/13 19:02:13
Subject: Re:Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
Glad to see it didn't meet some peoples rage moments lol. Honestly, it's pretty solid. But the light armor of the harpies/crones mean that I'm not THAT scared of it. If it goes first and gets 2-3 catalysts that I'm hosed, otherwise, meh.
Of course, I play vect/coteaz so the chances of the nid player going first aren't great (I have an 87.5% chance to go first)
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2014/03/13 19:30:45
Subject: Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
Bad RiTides...don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Remember that SiTW didn't affect transportees due to an awful FAQ ruling. Then one day, towards the end of 5th, the FAQ on SiTW disappeared from the Tyranid FAQ never to rear its ugly face again.
jathomas2013 wrote: Glad to see it didn't meet some peoples rage moments lol. Honestly, it's pretty solid. But the light armor of the harpies/crones mean that I'm not THAT scared of it. If it goes first and gets 2-3 catalysts that I'm hosed, otherwise, meh.
Of course, I play vect/coteaz so the chances of the nid player going first aren't great (I have an 87.5% chance to go first)
86.1% technically... But assuming a DE primary I wouldn't be terribly afraid of the alpha strike... there's nothing super long range and I can just stay back my first turn. Once I'm up in the air, it's going to get... messy.
2014/03/13 20:53:39
Subject: Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
jy2 wrote: I've been having horrible luck assaulting with my flyrants into riptides as well. In my last 2 games against Riptide Tau, despite him needing 5's to hit and striking 2nd, my opponent's riptides have been beating my flyrants in combat. Ironically, I was winning before the assault also (at least in 1 of those games).
I think this game may have turned out differently if not for the dice. But that happens....and it's good to see bugs still take it in spite of some bad luck (any other Tyranid army and they would have probably lost big time).
I've probably had 30 cases where Flyrants assaulted riptides.
Riptides have killed 20 or so Flyrants, Flyrants have only killed 7 riptides. It isn't exactly a fair comparison because in many cases the flyrants have already taken wounds, but to assume that a riptide is bad in CC is a folly, once it gets off the 3++ Nova, it is darn good. Flyrants meanwhile get no saves unless they have FNP.
2014/03/14 21:24:32
Subject: Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
Then you have riptide's being joined by stubborn, MH, Hit and Run Buff Commanders. I have pretty good luck tying up DP, LOC, Fate Weaver, and last edition's Flyrants with that duo, only to jump out in at the end of my opponent's assault phase and shoot them to death.
I also never leave home without a wraith knight...between those two units, I usually feel pretty comfortable in CC (of course I am assuming that I get at least one round of average firing to weaken whatever is coming my way).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/14 22:27:22
I've probably had 30 cases where Flyrants assaulted riptides.
Riptides have killed 20 or so Flyrants, Flyrants have only killed 7 riptides. It isn't exactly a fair comparison because in many cases the flyrants have already taken wounds, but to assume that a riptide is bad in CC is a folly, once it gets off the 3++ Nova, it is darn good. Flyrants meanwhile get no saves unless they have FNP.
Even without that 3++, they're crazy tough; the 5++ invul combine with 5+ FNP gives them a 55% save rate against the Flyrant's attacks. With the 3++, his save rate goes up to 78%. Flyrant is getting no saves in return. The Flyrant hits twice as often, but he wounds fewer than half the time, totally negating his WS advantage. Flyrant has 1 extra attack (woop-de-do), but the Riptide has an extra wound. Their fairly well matched.
This. People are all "Oh, don't assault me - that's where I loooooose...." and then laugh as Riptides tear things apart.
Pretty much. My experience playing as/against Tau is that they're pretty good in the assault phase. I was bewildered the first time a group of Broadsides annihilated my Assault Marines in CC, or how Riptides chew up my dedicated CC captains. And that overwatch, ugh.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/15 01:17:29
2014/03/15 01:52:35
Subject: Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
Tau in general are horrible in melee and multi assaulting them followed up by sweeping advances can quickly remove Riptides. The Riptide in solo mode is just plain nasty though... Better than a WK for sure.
Yeah assaulting riptides without ID AP2 or a multi assault seems to just lead to a victorious riptide. I always find it funny when people bubble wrap their riptides as if it needed protection from being assaulted.
2014/03/15 15:36:18
Subject: Tyranids vs Tau 1850, Skyblight test game!
jy2 wrote: Deepstriking is a viable strategy. As a matter of fact, I'd recommend you deepstrike 1, maybe even 2 units of gargoyles in Hammer-&-Anvil deployments.
My logic was that a returning garg brood can then deep strike if it started the game that way. In the future I may only DS two broods and let the third go for the relic or my own objectives.
I recommend only deepstriking 1. That's all you will probably need. Better to have the majority of your gargoyles on the table to start harassing.
jathomas2013 wrote: Glad to see it didn't meet some peoples rage moments lol. Honestly, it's pretty solid. But the light armor of the harpies/crones mean that I'm not THAT scared of it. If it goes first and gets 2-3 catalysts that I'm hosed, otherwise, meh.
Of course, I play vect/coteaz so the chances of the nid player going first aren't great (I have an 87.5% chance to go first)
You'd be surprised at the resiliency of a Tyranid army that is built correctly. I've been playtesting the bugs and they've done suprisingly well against some nasty alpha-strikes, including a 6 Annihilation Barge Necron double-FOC army that went 1st.
The key for me, of course, is the venom-in-a-bastion tactic to give my FMC's 2+ cover as well as reserves and deploying your FMC's out of range.
jy2 wrote: I've been having horrible luck assaulting with my flyrants into riptides as well. In my last 2 games against Riptide Tau, despite him needing 5's to hit and striking 2nd, my opponent's riptides have been beating my flyrants in combat. Ironically, I was winning before the assault also (at least in 1 of those games).
I think this game may have turned out differently if not for the dice. But that happens....and it's good to see bugs still take it in spite of some bad luck (any other Tyranid army and they would have probably lost big time).
I've probably had 30 cases where Flyrants assaulted riptides.
Riptides have killed 20 or so Flyrants, Flyrants have only killed 7 riptides. It isn't exactly a fair comparison because in many cases the flyrants have already taken wounds, but to assume that a riptide is bad in CC is a folly, once it gets off the 3++ Nova, it is darn good. Flyrants meanwhile get no saves unless they have FNP.
That's why nowadays, I hardly assault with my flyrants. They can actually usually do more damage with their shooting than with assault, not to mention they tend to stay alive longer that way as well (in most cases).
To me, giving my shooty flyrants Adrenal Glands is about as useful as giving a 3-wound Tyranid character Regen.
Dozer Blades wrote: Riptides can kick arse in cc... it is dumb but it is there . I have seen them take down WKs.
So can Nidz shoot the gun enplacements ?
Yes, currently they can.
However, that may change if and when the new FAQ's come out....whenever that may be.
The problem is I don't see what they could FAQ?
That's not a problem for me.
ansacs wrote: Thanks for the batrep. Very interesting.
Yeah assaulting riptides without ID AP2 or a multi assault seems to just lead to a victorious riptide. I always find it funny when people bubble wrap their riptides as if it needed protection from being assaulted.
That's actually the best way to get their riptides killed.
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Thanx!
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