Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is he the most powerful SM when he is wounded?

8 attacks on the charge (5 base, rage, close combat weapon)

str 8 on the charge (base 5, furious charge, power maul)

He also gets to re-roll all to hit dice and re-roll all to wound dice.

is there another close combat SM that is as strong in comabt as a wounded Blood angels Lemartes?

He's nasty, but he's not survivable is the main issue. Many terminator or equivalent characters tend to be meaner than he is. That being said...He still has a good chance of killing those characters as they also kill him.

With proper buffs, a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf can get 7 S10 AP2 Attacks that re-roll to hit and have PE. (So, against T8 or worse, Rerolls to wound.) He's I1, though.

Waaaghpower wrote:
With proper buffs, a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf can get 7 S10 AP2 Attacks that re-roll to hit and have PE. (So, against T8 or worse, Rerolls to wound.) He's I1, though.

lemarted is 150 pts how many points is the buffed up wolf lord/

So, Abaddon matches the S8, and the rerolls to wound. He only gets 6 attacks instead of 8, and the rerolls to hit only works against space marines, but they're Ap3 instead of Ap4.

Meanwhile, Kharn gets only S7 and only 7 attacks, and doesn't reroll to wound, but his attacks always hit on a 2 (which are rerollable), and comes with armorbane, and comes with Ap TWO, which is rather better.

Also, Lemartes' strength is mitigated by the fact that he's stuck in power armor, and that he only has two wounds, so it's pretty tough to get him into a position where he is, on the one hand, already wounded, and on the other not dead before he gets to kill something.

150 Points for a 3+ armour save and 2 wounds (1 when he's buffed) and doesn't have AP2.. No thanks.

LeMartes is cool but no guarantee to actually get to use him as intended and so many points when he doesn't get to...

Its not very scary when the majority of his attacks will bounce off power armor. He only averages about 2 dead tacticals a round.

If you take your SM and worship the blood god you'll find a powerful cc dude alright. A juggerlord is much scarier given its 7+D6 attacks at S6 and most importantly AP2. Furthermore he can be a lot more durable with T5 4W and 4++ all for about the same points as lemartes.

Not everything has power armor so Im not sure that its production against Power armor alone is enough to condemn it. I just would hate to pay that many points for an on again off again guy. His Look out Sir is on a 4+, so...

Lemartes is terrible for 150. Next.

remember lemartes gives all the death company re rolls to hit and wound not just himself.

You could give lemartes a power axe so he is str 7 ap 2 ( I believe)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Lemartes is terrible for 150. Next.

Rude, dismissive commets like yours give 40k players a bad name.

Sorry the truth hurts. But last I checked, Lemartes is 150 pts and he is terrible.

And the DC are also terrible, so giving a buff to a terrible unit is not exactly helping.

Martel732 wrote:
Sorry the truth hurts. But last I checked, Lemartes is 150 pts and he is terrible.

And the DC are also terrible, so giving a buff to a terrible unit is not exactly helping.

it is the fact you said 'next'. Doesn't bother me if you like the same units as me or not but just try to not be so dismissive in the future eg saying 'next'.

I'm just familiar with C:BA, otherwise known as Codex: Trap Units, to the point of contempt.

'Bad' is relative.

Something like Noise Marines are either an utterly awful unit or a quite good unit depending on several factors.

Same with BA.

With a power maul he could wreck Eavy Armored Nobz mob, Or are PM unwieldy?

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
With a power maul he could wreck Eavy Armored Nobz mob, Or are PM unwieldy?

They are weildy. But Nobz worth their salt will be on bikes, and have a 5+ Invunl, FNP, and a couple of Power Klaws in their squad.

Martel732 wrote:
Lemartes is terrible for 150. Next.

Expect nothing less from this guy. Sheesh.

Back on topic though I think LeMartes if far from a bad buy if you take DC along with him. That unit will kill things. I dont know if he is the most powerful or not but 8 st8 attacks with rerolls to hit and wound is nothing to scoff at. The trick I've found is that it is hard to get just a single wound on him. And he needs that wound to get his power where guys like Marneus Calgar and Abaddon have it stock. Only difference is number of attacks...

Well, nobz worth their salt will Mass S5 bike shoota the hell out of lemartes and his death company first. Or possibly that will be the only thing they if the death company don't have jump packs.

And saying that Lemartes isn't worth it because he's from the BA codex, which isn't worth it is silly at best, and a fallacy of composition at worst.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
'Bad' is relative.

Something like Noise Marines are either an utterly awful unit or a quite good unit depending on several factors.

Same with BA.

Trust me, I've seen people try to argue with Martel for years, and I can tell you now that you do not want to go down this road... He may seem harsh, but he's right when it comes to how bad Blood Angels are - when you aren't tailoring to a specific army/list, the majority of BA's units just don't perform well enough. Like, sure, Lemartes will probably annihilate a unit of Fire Warriors (who won't though?), but he has to take a wound first, and then survive to reach assault, and then try not to wipe out everything in assault or he'll have to take another round of shooting. All this for 150pts on an already overcosted squad (Death Company with Jump Packs)? Yeah, no thanks.

Waaaghpower wrote:
With proper buffs, a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf can get 7 S10 AP2 Attacks that re-roll to hit and have PE. (So, against T8 or worse, Rerolls to wound.) He's I1, though.

Throw on Saga of the Warrior Born, and the Wolf Lord can theoretically get 24,576 Attacks (he'd have to hit and kill a model with every attack, every turn, for 7 turns and get in base contact with thousands of models though, so obviously it's impossible). I think Ragnar could actually get slightly more too, for slightly less killing power (S6 on the charge, AP3).

champagne_socialist wrote:
You could give lemartes a power axe so he is str 7 ap 2 ( I believe)

He's a Special Character who doesn't have any armory options to choose from. And his power weapon (or that of other Chaplains) can't be remodelled either - it's a Crozius which is always a Power Maul.

From the BA FAQ:

Page 43
Lemartes, The Blood Crozius.
Change the last sentence to read “The Blood Crozius is a
power maul with the Master-crafted special rule.”

Page 42
Chaplains, Crozius Arcanum.
Replace this entry with “A crozius arcanum is treated as a
power maul.”

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
'Bad' is relative.

Something like Noise Marines are either an utter awful unit or a quite good unit depending on several factors.

Same with BA.

Trust me, I've seen people try to argue with Martel for years, and I can tell you now that you do not want to go down this road... He may seem harsh, but he's right when it comes to how bad Blood Angels are - when you aren't tailoring to a specific army/list, the majority of BA's units just don't perform well enough. Like, sure, Lemartes will probably annihilate a unit of Fire Warriors (who won't though?), but he has to take a wound first, and then survive to reach assault, and then try not to wipe out everything in assault or he'll have to take another round of shooting. All this for 150pts on an already overcosted squad (Death Company with Jump Packs)? Yeah, no thanks.

Waaaghpower wrote:
With proper buffs, a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf can get 7 S10 AP2 Attacks that re-roll to hit and have PE. (So, against T8 or worse, Rerolls to wound.) He's I1, though.

Throw on Saga of the Warrior Born, and the Wolf Lord can theoretically get 24,576 Attacks (he'd have to hit and kill a model with every attack, every turn, for 7 turns and get in base contact with thousands of models though, so obviously it's impossible). I think Ragnar could actually get slightly more too, for slightly less killing power (S6 on the charge, AP3).

Doesn't mean he can't be more constructive with his point of view. Based on what I've seen he thinks everything is gak unless it's TauDar. Yes we all know how wonderful and broken they are. But he acts like a mindless drone putting down everything anyone says that is even remotely positive about BA. I'm fine with the fact that he hates them. I'm not fine with the fact that he takes every single damned opportunity to crush another player's opinion in the most negative way possible. He doesn't have to be so tactless about it.

BA have fast vehicles. That's good. There I said something positive. But I'm not saying anything positive about Lemartes, because there's nothing to say.

And to be fair, Daemons are up there with Tau/Eldar.

Martel732 wrote:
BA have fast vehicles. That's good. There I said something positive. But I'm not saying anything positive about Lemartes, because there's nothing to say.

And to be fair, Daemons are up there with Tau/Eldar.

Classy snark. Nice. Look I'm just saying you don't have to smash everything everyone says. You're some supposed BA veteran why not use that knowledge to help people who, as you would put it, "insist" on playing them? Seems to me most people who play them know how bad they are competitive wise. We don't need you to troll everything about them. So why not offer people advice within their codex like a lot of other people here do instead of putting them down.

I didn't mean to put anyone down, just the BA codex

There are some builds for BA better than others, but zero of the "better" ones involve Lemartes.

Murdius Maximus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
BA have fast vehicles. That's good. There I said something positive. But I'm not saying anything positive about Lemartes, because there's nothing to say.

And to be fair, Daemons are up there with Tau/Eldar.

Classy snark. Nice. Look I'm just saying you don't have to smash everything everyone says. You're some supposed BA veteran why not use that knowledge to help people who, as you would put it, "insist" on playing them? Seems to me most people who play them know how bad they are competitive wise. We don't need you to troll everything about them. So why not offer people advice within their codex like a lot of other people here do instead of putting them down.

Do you play in a TAC, competitive environment? If you do then good luck with BA. Ideally, you're gonna want to bring lots of podding Fragiosos, Baal Predators, Vindicators and MSU. Even then, you're probably going to struggle because most lists are going to be able to out-shoot and out-assault you.

Do you play in a non-competitive environment where you generally know what your opponent is going to bring beforehand? Well you should be able to adapt then by playing to your strengths versus the army you're facing.

I've even quit using Vindis because of MCs. I hate MCs.

Well swap Vindis for Predators or some other tank, up to the player I guess.

I do. I was just pointing how narrow BA choices have gotten.

Narrow doesn't mean unplayable. And LeMartes not showing up in any WAAC lists may be indicative of him not being the best choice but it doesn't make him unplayable.
BA have some good options. It is up to the player to make them good and in the hands of a good general LeMartes can wreck face. Besides, it's a given that the next codex release for BA will most likely lower point costs for units so I figure use him now and learn him the hard way so that when he gets easier to use due to lower costs you are more effective with him.