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Armies like Norse, nippon, Cathay, dogs of war, chaos dwarfs, hobgoblins etc. Seem to have a decent web following. They have fans, and people who use them occasionally.

What are your thoughts on these armies?
do you let your opponents use these armies?
why or why not?

Just curious my league allows the fan made lists, and I'm currently assembling Norse, with some skeleton thralls.

Let me know
thanks guys
Austin

Well, to be accurate, Chaos Dwarves are not a fan army. They have a genuine, legal codex out of Forge World that most tournaments allow. Likewise, Dogs of War had a legal codex until recently.

I didn't know that chaos dwarfs had a legit book.

Dogs of war are now officially a fan book though.

Chaos Dwarfs are an army for people with more money than common sense (37 pounds for 10 dwarfs).


I do love the Norsca book though, and I'd totally love to play it. I also like the updated Bretonnian book.

Well I have only seen a few fan made books (never read any tho) I have heard of Kislev mainly but never payed much attention to them.
The problem I see with the fan made books is lack of models. I don't want to convert a whole army (especially if it is a horde army). I would be interested to read the rules for some of these other ones though and I like to read other additions to the current army books that some people have in the proposed rules section.

I would play anyone trying out new stuff or one of these fan made books as long as they aren't super cheese (which the popular books probably aren't).


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Nevermind I found a list of them for people who don't know them all and here is what I came up with (let me know if there is any other ones and if you need the link)

1- Albion
2- Amazons
3- Araby
4- Cathay
5- Chaos Dwarfs (now official)
6- Classic Regiments of Renown (also normal Regiments of Renown)
7- Cult of Ulric
8- Dogs of War
9- Empire Knightly Orders
10- Estalia
11- Fimir
12- Halflings
13- Hobgoblins
14- Kingdoms of Ind
15- Kislev
16- Nauticans
17- Nippon
18- Norse
19 Special Characters (update for lords and heroes for 8th edition rules)

Chiefbigredman

http://battlereporter.freeforums.org/warhammer-army-books-fan-made-unofficial-f88.html

Happy holiday mate


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Also, companies like mantic and warlord make a variety of fantasy ans historical models that can fill up the rank ans file of these armies.

 aapch45 wrote:
Chiefbigredman

http://battlereporter.freeforums.org/warhammer-army-books-fan-made-unofficial-f88.html

Happy holiday mate


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, companies like mantic and warlord make a variety of fantasy ans historical models that can fill up the rank ans file of these armies.

Thanks! Sorry I was in the process of updating what I said and put a list on here for people haha I found that tho
Ya I agree with using Mantic games etc but sometimes I like models made specifically for that army but since it is fan made that would be hard!

I recommend giving some of those a look! They are gw quality, if not better.

Some (Albion I'm looking at you) are super under-powered... and others,(Norse, Cathay..) are balanced.

Fan armies are touchy with some gamers.

Ya I did give Kislev and Halfling a glance (I don't have time to read them at the moment) but the quality is really surprising and I think it would be really interesting to try one of these out. People clearly put a lot of time and thought into these!
I don't think I would play them at my FLGS though but I am sure my friends wouldn't mind trying it out!

If you have a strong community you can do it. My Blood Bowl friends were basically left high and dry by GW so they took it upon themselves to continually update the rules. But their rules are about.....00000000000000000001% less than WHFB.

In the early days of MMO games I did a lot of major play testing and I broke a lot of games. But the point is, even with a lot of skilled and smart people once it's out there in the hands of crafty folks looking to break it, it's going to break.

There is also a huge moral authority that comes from being GW. We might complain about some items a lot but it has to be really egregious to be comped or removed from tournaments. If it's DukeRustfield's Dirty Monsters, every item is going to be 2nd guessed.

I try (and fail) to make my own armies and I also love the fan made ones too!
As for using them, I play against myself so it's no real problem for me.
Kislev is probably my favorite.

Chaos Dwarfs are an army for people with more money than common sense (37 pounds for 10 dwarfs).

Meh ... look at Wiches, look at Longbeards ...
CDs are not so pricey anymore when you compare those prices (or of course, if you're Australian)

True, but Witch elves are still cheaper none the less.

I feel sorry for our Australian brethren. They do seem to get the short end of the stick.

It depends welshhoppo ... If you're in the UK, maybe
But when you're using Euros, the price can vary wildly based on the markets
I always ordered FW toys when the pound was at a low value compared to the euro and in this case, 37L is less than 45E

I'm all about fan made armies I've been looking for good models to use for Nippon and Araby my self!

 DarkWind wrote:
I'm all about fan made armies I've been looking for good models to use for Nippon and Araby my self!

I just looked at the Nippon army book and it looks really cool...who doesn't like samuri???!!
Perry Miniatures has a fair number of decent samuri miniatures but I think you would need to get new bases I am not sure how tall they are though.

I like these armies, especially Cathay.

Wargames factory makes decent samurai and ashagiru.(I butchered that word. Sorry!)

Nippon is really OP though lol.

So as a whole, do you think non-gw tourneys should allow fan armies?

 aapch45 wrote:
Wargames factory makes decent samurai and ashagiru.(I butchered that word. Sorry!)

Nippon is really OP though lol.

So as a whole, do you think non-gw tourneys should allow fan armies?

I don't think they should be allowed in tourneys.
People would complain about them so much even if they are fairly balanced people always find something to complain about and the first thing would be "over powered non GW bologna"
Causal games for sure tho!

a good alternative to tournaments is "campaign week-ends" with a narrative, non-balanced and different scenarios
You can mix alliances (2v2, 3v5 ...), skirmish and such
If the aim of the event is not "may the best crush its opponents" but rather "have a different experience of WHFB", then those unofficial lists work better, with less moaning

Well, from my experience with unofficial and official armies, I have to say that unofficial armies are updated far more oftenly than official ones, because the creators of them test them, listen to players' comments, thus making them not perfectly balanced, but absolutely playable.
On the other hand, GW has somehow neglected WFB, they have forgotten bretonnia and wood elves, they dont decrease beastmen costs, and they dont even care to correct some crucial details in armies like ogres, high elves, skaven, tk etc.

I'll ne giving Albion a go with some of the warlord hail Caesar line Celts.

I'll let everyone know how that goes!

Honestly, I've never been a fan of these sorts of things. I gravitate towards weaker armies with a goal of tinkering and optimizing a list into something workable, and that in itself is where much of my enjoyment comes from. Tinkering and optimizing an unofficial book seems inherently contrary to their purpose, and deflates what I find most compelling about the game.

If you consider yourself primarily a hobbyist then I can see why you might enjoy these books as an avenue for expanding your creative expression. But as a gamer first and foremost I don't want all that much to do with them.

Well, they're not meant to be optimized and squeezed to get the more competitiveness out of them
They offer slightly different gaming experience and different (expanded on small bits of canon info) background as well
Some of them are even probably more balanced than the official GW books (some clearly aren't) due to being playtested outside of the "carebearian GW bubble" and being adjusted over time

I've looked into some of the fan armies before, with interest. I'm still trying to figure where i could get enough models for an Amazon army, as that appeals to me and i came into this from Blood Bowl.

TanKoL wrote:
Well, they're not meant to be optimized and squeezed to get the more competitiveness out of them
They offer slightly different gaming experience and different (expanded on small bits of canon info) background as well
Some of them are even probably more balanced than the official GW books (some clearly aren't) due to being playtested outside of the "carebearian GW bubble" and being adjusted over time

Of course, but my point is that really limits the appeal for some. Much of the fun in the game for me is building lists and endlessly tinkering with them, and doing this with a fan-built armybook feels substantially close to cheating. Unless ALL of my friends were taking them I'd be inclined to stay far away.

Why does it feel like cheating? There is no competitive edge when using a fan made book.... its probably more tested than the actual gw book that is being used.


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Bdrone wrote:
I've looked into some of the fan armies before, with interest. I'm still trying to figure where i could get enough models for an Amazon army, as that appeals to me and i came into this from Blood Bowl.

Wargamesfactory.com has 28mm Amazons in their "legacy of the Greeks" section

Happy wargaming

 aapch45 wrote:
Why does it feel like cheating? There is no competitive edge when using a fan made book.... its probably more tested than the actual gw book that is being used.

My hobby is trying to break army books, and build the most broken and bent filth I can find. It's why I limit myself to weak armies, where that practice doesn't end you up with the netlist every time.

Trying to break a fan-built list feels...unsporting to me. If you bring a fan-built list to play at your FLGS the person accepting is doing so with the understanding that you've brought something fluffy. Not that you've built some kind of flying carpet deathstar or some nonsense like that. Club them over the head with some mean combo and they're not going to feel good about it, and probably won't want to play you again. It'd make me feel dirty for doing the thing I like to do, and kind of takes the fun away for me.

Whereas if I build something really fething mean with my Tomb Kings (which is pretty much impossible...believe me I've tried) people are just...impressed that I managed to win a game with them? It's just a totally different game. If everyone I knew was running fan-built books then it'd be a totally different story, but I feel like you're entering into a gentleman's agreement when you accept a game against a fan-built book and building competitive lists with them is breaking that.

I see what you mean now

Nasty nasty git!