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Are wolfguard like sternguard? Where you can take combi weapons? Are wolf guard termies better than wolf guard in Power Armor? Thanks in advance!

Wolfguard can all take COmbi-weapons, as for termies better than Power armor...not really it depends on how you kit them out.

I do not know if Breng77 plays SW, but he is wrong on the terminators.
All of them can take combi-weapons, as the stern guard.
No one in their right mind runs them in power armor for a couple reasons. 1.) For 33 points, it is cheaper then the 40 point stock SM termi. 2.) SW termis can come down in drop pods, in place of teleporting, making them a more durable strike force then their power armor brethren. 3.) They also come stock with 2 attacks, and has access to frost weaponry, not to mention cheaper power fists.

As tactical terminators wolf guard work well, where they fail is as combat troops as their thunder hammer and shield are way overpriced at 15 points each making each th/ss model stupidly expensive.

hobojebus wrote:
As tactical terminators wolf guard work well, where they fail is as combat troops as their thunder hammer and shield are way overpriced at 15 points each making each th/ss model stupidly expensive.

Sorry, I do not know Vanilla SM costs for TH and SS, can you put that up for comparison?

 goblinking201 wrote:
I do not know if Breng77 plays SW, but he is wrong on the terminators.
All of them can take combi-weapons, as the stern guard.
No one in their right mind runs them in power armor for a couple reasons. 1.) For 33 points, it is cheaper then the 40 point stock SM termi. 2.) SW termis can come down in drop pods, in place of teleporting, making them a more durable strike force then their power armor brethren. 3.) They also come stock with 2 attacks, and has access to frost weaponry, not to mention cheaper power fists.

Again it depends on role I can fit 10 combi wolf guard in a pod and only 5 termies.. Essentially if you want to keep them cheap you keep them I. Power armor, once you want more than a combi weapon you go up to termies. I remember back in 5th Ed people would take mixed squads for the best of both worlds because it allowed cheaper access to terminator heavy weapons.

A space marine th/ss is 45 points vs 63 for wolf guard.

From a tournament perspective I almost never see wolf guard termies these days.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Because though a terminator is twice as durable, as a power armored guy he closes almost twice as much, and wiping out 10 pa marines is frequently harder than 5 termies.

Breng77 wrote:

 goblinking201 wrote:
I do not know if Breng77 plays SW, but he is wrong on the terminators.
All of them can take combi-weapons, as the stern guard.
No one in their right mind runs them in power armor for a couple reasons. 1.) For 33 points, it is cheaper then the 40 point stock SM termi. 2.) SW termis can come down in drop pods, in place of teleporting, making them a more durable strike force then their power armor brethren. 3.) They also come stock with 2 attacks, and has access to frost weaponry, not to mention cheaper power fists.

Again it depends on role I can fit 10 combi wolf guard in a pod and only 5 termies.. Essentially if you want to keep them cheap you keep them I. Power armor, once you want more than a combi weapon you go up to termies. I remember back in 5th Ed people would take mixed squads for the best of both worlds because it allowed cheaper access to terminator heavy weapons.

A space marine th/ss is 45 points vs 63 for wolf guard.

From a tournament perspective I almost never see wolf guard termies these days.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Because though a terminator is twice as durable, as a power armored guy he closes almost twice as much, and wiping out 10 pa marines is frequently harder than 5 termies.

The point difference also has to matter on a few things. 1.) They do get 1 extra attack base, which is pretty good unto itself. 2.) They also come with the stock SW rules, such as acute scenes and counter-attack that the other termis cant get. 3.) They can also split off and lead groups, which can mean giving a 2+3+ save vs. what ever they can throw at a grey hunters squad. I think over all the SW termis can fulfill more roles then the regular ones.
Also with the combi-weapons, why would you want to suicide 265 points on a ten man squad when a 5 man squad would do it better, for the points cost, or a 5 man termi squad that has a better chance on surviving an encounter?

Because the 5 man terminator squad often does not have a better chance?

Terminators overall are bad in the current meta lots of AP2 (which kills termies as easily/easier than standard Marines) or weight of fire which kills them essentially the same. The 10 man squad puts out more damage with Combi weapons for about the same points (10 Combi plasma guys dropping on an enemy squad does more damage, or does not need to burn as many combis the first turn, and can be effective for more turns)

As for the points difference

SW termies have the same number of attacks as regular termies at 2.

Acute senses is worthless unless you want to outflank them.

Counter attack is good, but not 18 points better than chapter tactics for other TH/SS termies.

SW termies are more flexible...breaking them off is good, but if you want TH/SS termies they are not the way to go. Cheap with just Terminator Armor and PW and maybe a combi-weapon is the way to go with them.

I still feel that mixed squads probably get the most bang for your buck.

One thing you might consider is just giving the terminators ss but not the TH, you can take power axes which give you the ap 2 for free and your still str 5.

Though you may want to wait as I don't know how much longer we get to keep that option with rumours of a new codex.

 goblinking201 wrote:
I do not know if Breng77 plays SW, but he is wrong on the terminators.
All of them can take combi-weapons, as the stern guard.
No one in their right mind runs them in power armor for a couple reasons. 1.) For 33 points, it is cheaper then the 40 point stock SM termi. 2.) SW termis can come down in drop pods, in place of teleporting, making them a more durable strike force then their power armor brethren. 3.) They also come stock with 2 attacks, and has access to frost weaponry, not to mention cheaper power fists.

I like to take WG without termie armour to fill out squads. I like to keep the cost of my units down and take more bodies. If you go all termies with fancy weapons, it's an expensive unit with not a lot of wounds. Adding in some PA guys either lets you take more bodies which means more attacks for not a lot of extra points.

TH/SS termies really aren't worth the points you pay for them. I would avoid them for the most part.

I mostly use my WG without terminator armour as sergeants.
Terminators are a fun unit, but they are not very competitive.
Using WG as sergeants is the best option imo.

 goblinking201 wrote:
No one in their right mind runs them in power armor for a couple reasons.

Ummm, no. Plenty of people do not obsess over their wolf guard being in terminator armor. I use my wolfguard as a combination of leadership for squads and as a squad of their own. So take a full 10 man unit of wolfguard in power armor. Peel off 3 to lead 2 units of gray hunters and 1 to lead a unit of Bloodclaws. That leaves me with 7 who can all fit nicely into a drop pod with a terminator armored wolfguard leader hq model and unleash plenty of fire and pain on the enemy when they land. More models means more fire I can drop on my targets, and also more wounds the other side has to cause to be able to wipe my unit out. Also buying power armored wolfguard is *cheaper*. Sometimes it just isn't about how many terminators you can cram into the army, especially with the growing preponderance of AP2 weaponry in the game. My power armored marines are just as vulnerable to the AP 2 weapons, but are cheaper to begin with.

If I buy all my wolfguard in terminator armor the unit size drops for the same points. After peeling off 3 unit leaders I now have 2 terminators accompanying my hq termie in the drop pod making for a weaker and easier to destroy unit that now has less than 50% of the firepower of my power armored squad. Not only that, but I have to peel off extra models from my grey hunter and bloodclaw squads to be able to get into a transport with a terminator now leading them. No thanks.

Just because *you* prefer to use wolfguard terminators doesn't mean anyone who doesn't is insane or stupid in some way.

Skriker

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 goblinking201 wrote:
I do not know if Breng77 plays SW, but he is wrong on the terminators.
All of them can take combi-weapons, as the stern guard.
No one in their right mind runs them in power armor for a couple reasons. 1.) For 33 points, it is cheaper then the 40 point stock SM termi. 2.) SW termis can come down in drop pods, in place of teleporting, making them a more durable strike force then their power armor brethren. 3.) They also come stock with 2 attacks, and has access to frost weaponry, not to mention cheaper power fists.

I like to take WG without termie armour to fill out squads. I like to keep the cost of my units down and take more bodies. If you go all termies with fancy weapons, it's an expensive unit with not a lot of wounds. Adding in some PA guys either lets you take more bodies which means more attacks for not a lot of extra points.

TH/SS termies really aren't worth the points you pay for them. I would avoid them for the most part.

You do not always have to deck them out with the fanciest weapons, having a storm bolter and a power weapon is a nice base for the points.

With the filling out the squads, it only really works if your not running transports, and if you are only using them to fill out squads, you are losing points on free upgrades for more men.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skriker wrote:

 goblinking201 wrote:
No one in their right mind runs them in power armor for a couple reasons.

Ummm, no. Plenty of people do not obsess over their wolf guard being in terminator armor. I use my wolfguard as a combination of leadership for squads and as a squad of their own. So take a full 10 man unit of wolfguard in power armor. Peel off 3 to lead 2 units of gray hunters and 1 to lead a unit of Bloodclaws. That leaves me with 7 who can all fit nicely into a drop pod with a terminator armored wolfguard leader hq model and unleash plenty of fire and pain on the enemy when they land. More models means more fire I can drop on my targets, and also more wounds the other side has to cause to be able to wipe my unit out. Also buying power armored wolfguard is *cheaper*. Sometimes it just isn't about how many terminators you can cram into the army, especially with the growing preponderance of AP2 weaponry in the game. My power armored marines are just as vulnerable to the AP 2 weapons, but are cheaper to begin with.

If I buy all my wolfguard in terminator armor the unit size drops for the same points. After peeling off 3 unit leaders I now have 2 terminators accompanying my hq termie in the drop pod making for a weaker and easier to destroy unit that now has less than 50% of the firepower of my power armored squad. Not only that, but I have to peel off extra models from my grey hunter and bloodclaw squads to be able to get into a transport with a terminator now leading them. No thanks.

Just because *you* prefer to use wolfguard terminators doesn't mean anyone who doesn't is insane or stupid in some way.

Skriker

Sorry, did not mean for that comment to offend, but I have now been convinced that PA WG have their use.

Back with my other comment, unless your running a foot-slogging list, the sergents only really work for BC unless your planing on losing out on free upgrades if your taking transports.

Not having a lot of termis also work in an army as an elite body guard also, you do not need to just cram them.

Thanks for alerting me to the fact that I can mix terminators and non-terminator WG in squads, did not realize that that was a thing.

Sincerely, goblinking201

I have been playing SW for a couple years now. It seems like they just don't have the punch as a pure codex to do well in tournament settings. They are competitive and make for a tough game for a lot of armies they just don't have the umph to put them ahead though.

Casual they might do ok.

 goblinking201 wrote:
With the filling out the squads, it only really works if your not running transports, and if you are only using them to fill out squads, you are losing points on free upgrades for more men.

I mean filling out WG squads. So instead of taking small units of terminators, taking larger units of terminators + PA guys or even just purely PA guys.