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Ok, so i know if i have a squad of gretchin in front of a squad of boyz and somebody is shooting at the boyz they get a 4+ cover save.

But i have a buddy who insists that for every boy saved, one gretchin in the mob that's offering the cover save dies.

I'm not saying he's wrong .. just want to know if it's accurate or not.

I believe the Boyz being shot at will get a 5+ cover for intervening models and no gretchin will die from any save's. Not sure if thats an old mehanic

stu wrote:
I believe the Boyz being shot at will get a 5+ cover for intervening models and no gretchin will die from any save's. Not sure if thats an old mehanic

It is. In 3rd I believe you couldn't get a cover save for a unit being in front of you with the exception of Gretchin shields who then lost one model for each successful save.

That sounds like an old rule - at least a quick sweep through my current Ork codex can't turn it up.

Diz be third edd indeed just tell him to show you the rule if he keeps insisting.

Probably old. But would definately be an amusing Mechanic

Blaylokk wrote:
Ok, so i know if i have a squad of gretchin in front of a squad of boyz and somebody is shooting at the boyz they get a 4+ cover save.

But i have a buddy who insists that for every boy saved, one gretchin in the mob that's offering the cover save dies.

I'm not saying he's wrong .. just want to know if it's accurate or not.

He's wrong. That's not how the current rules work.
It's also a 5+ save; in 5th it was a 4+ save from intervening models.

ok got it.

5+ cover saves and no intervening casualties

Thanks guys!

Also ... doe this mean i can shoot through my own grot line with my boys? and the enemy just gets a 5 up cover save?

Blaylokk wrote:
Also ... doe this mean i can shoot through my own grot line with my boys? and the enemy just gets a 5 up cover save?

I am almost certain it is shooting through enemy models only (your dudes get out of the way). But I could be wrong.

looks like i have to dig out my rulebook for clarification .. either way .. i'm under the impression i can shoot thru other friendly squads.

Pardon poor representation

|__..............................................__|
|.........|__.........................................|
|.........|..............................................|
O.......G...........................................S

O is Ork
G is Gretchin
S is Space Marine

Since the Ork is more than 25% obscured (by the Gretchin) from the SM POV he gets a save. Conversely, since the SM is not 25% obscured from the Orks POV, he does not get a cover save.

Forgot to take the shooters POV into consideration .. Thanks!

 dementedwombat wrote:

Blaylokk wrote:
Also ... doe this mean i can shoot through my own grot line with my boys? and the enemy just gets a 5 up cover save?

I am almost certain it is shooting through enemy models only (your dudes get out of the way). But I could be wrong.

Your dudes in the same unit get out of the way. Other units offer cover saves for your enemy too.

 Happyjew wrote:
Pardon poor representation

|__..............................................__|
|.........|__.........................................|
|.........|..............................................|
O.......G...........................................S

O is Ork
G is Gretchin
S is Space Marine

Since the Ork is more than 25% obscured (by the Gretchin) from the SM POV he gets a save. Conversely, since the SM is not 25% obscured from the Orks POV, he does not get a cover save.

The 25% thing is if the model you're firing at is obscured by terrain.

"Intervening models" is a separate rule. You don't need to cover 25% of the model.

"If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit (models not from the firer's unit, or from the target unit), it recieves a 5+ cover save ..... Similarly, if a model fires through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visible to the firer."

It then goes on to describe that the cover save is due to the firing troops being distracted by the intervening unit (either worried by the more immediate threat of an intervening enemy unit, or pausing because there's a friendly intervening unit).

At least that's how we play it. The rule is vague though, because there is a line saying "the same way as if it was behind terrain", which would imply that you need 25% coverage, however that's never explicitly stated, at the start of the sentence it simply says "partially hidden", NOT 25% hidden. The description of WHY you get a cover save when firing through intervening models also lends support to the idea that you don't need 25% coverage.

At least that's how we play it. The rule is vague though, because there is a line saying "the same way as if it was behind terrain", which would imply that you need 25% coverage, however that's never explicitly stated, at the start of the sentence it simply says "partially hidden", NOT 25% hidden. The description of WHY you get a cover save when firing through intervening models also lends support to the idea that you don't need 25% coverage.

Possibly because that makes it a cover save, and thus weapons that Ignore Cover can ignore the cover save granted by intervening models.

Just a guess, though.

 Eldarain wrote:

stu wrote:
I believe the Boyz being shot at will get a 5+ cover for intervening models and no gretchin will die from any save's. Not sure if thats an old mehanic

It is. In 3rd I believe you couldn't get a cover save for a unit being in front of you with the exception of Gretchin shields who then lost one model for each successful save.

Fun enough, they recycled that rule for the Chaos Helcult in the Helbrutes dataslate.