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Which army do you think has the worst / weakest chapter tactics? This of course includes anything else that is unique that they get, so be sure to consider all available options (access to special characters, units, dedicated transports etc.) before deciding.





Personally I think it is the Salamanders. Being able to twin-link their flame weapons and access to free (6th edition nerfed) master-crafted weapon upgrades for their sarges really arent that impressive at all. Oh and you are able to re-roll saves when you get flamed as well, but come on - when was the last time you actually feared enemy flamers as a space marine? And gaining the tankhunters USR for your flame weapons when using them? Come on - not like they can really hurt vehicles in the first place. So Vulkan adds tl-meltas to the army, but thats that. All in all its a small, decent bonus, but nothing you can build an army around, and also allows for a very limiting build if you want to maximise these effects.

Raven Guard, their chapter tactics aren't abd, but they're the only one I've never heard people talk up. also their soul IC is pretty meh too

BrianDavion wrote:
Raven Guard, their chapter tactics aren't abd, but they're the only one I've never heard people talk up. also their soul IC is pretty meh too

I used to think so too, but never underestimate the army wide scout-move. Vehicles dont get it, but dedicated transports do as they'll benefit from the infantry squad inside having it.

Armywide scout allows most of your guys essentially a free movement phase if they plan on going first, or a free redeployment into cover if they realize they will be going second. Add to this the bonus of armywide stealth on turn 1 and you'll see how much more survivable your army will get. Couple it with nightfighting and taking RG out will be a nightmare for the enemy. First turns in 40k can often be decisive. Oh and you get semi-decent Assault Squads as a bonus.

Armywide scout move also allows all your RG infantry to outflank instead, which is tactially a huge advantage.

 Sir Arun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Raven Guard, their chapter tactics aren't abd, but they're the only one I've never heard people talk up. also their soul IC is pretty meh too

I used to think so too, but never underestimate the army wide scout-move. Vehicles dont get it, but dedicated transports do as they'll benefit from the infantry squad inside having it.

Armywide scout allows most of your guys essentially a free movement phase if they plan on going first, or a free redeployment into cover if they realize they will be going second. Add to this the bonus of armywide stealth on turn 1 and you'll see how much more survivable your army will get. Couple it with nightfighting and taking RG out will be a nightmare for the enemy. First turns in 40k can often be decisive. Oh and you get semi-decent Assault Squads as a bonus.

Armywide scout move also allows all your RG infantry to outflank instead, which is tactially a huge advantage.

never said it was bad, just weaker then the others

over all as a SM player I'm VERY happy with the chapter tactics for all armies

I voted Salamanders because their reroll against flamer wounds seems so situational.

Somebody voted white scars? I am very intrigued.

I voted Imperial Fists though honestly they aren't bad at all. I just feel their unique abilities tend to go to waste as they lack a good skyfire option that syncs with them and this edition has feature more than it's share of MCs. Perhaps with the new SH they will start to shine.

In fact the entire SM codex is one of the best dexs I have ever seen with essentially only a few units that do not fit the current rules set well, I would not even call them stinkers just not optimal for the current rules and meta.

Overall the three "strongest" IMO are Iron Hands w/ Forgeworld vehicles, Ravenguard rhino rush, and White Scars bikers.

Two of those have shown their stuff at top GT tables and the Iron Hands will probably never be seen as the list would cost well over 1000 usd with no discounts or ebay possible. (it would look great though)

The remaining CT are each good but the lists that capitilize on their strengths tend to leave large openings and filling those takes away from their CT making them easy meat for one of the armies that syncs with their CT or SM bad matchups.

Salamanders are the best drop pod army. The problem being that all drop pod armies have the same critical weakness of loosing their mobility once they have dropped. They can put more damage on a SH faster than anyone else though and their TL flamer are brutal against most armies. Even SM take ~1.2 casualties on average which is equivolent to a plasma gun in double tap range (~1.3 casualties).

Black Templars are the swarm marines. I am convinced they can be good with the addition of void shields to neuter firepower until they cross most of the board.

Ultramarines are the finesse army this edition. Funny but true. They are probably the most tactically complex and encourage a little bit of everything approach. The few times I have seen them played by someone that has played them a lot since the edition dropped they have done well. They are definitely a newb trap though as inexperienced players get stomped when playing UM. Their devastator ability is great for TAC squads going after fliers though,

I voted Imperial Fists though honestly they aren't bad at all. I just feel their unique abilities tend to go to waste as they lack a good skyfire option that syncs with them and this edition has feature more than it's share of MCs. Perhaps with the new SH they will start to shine.

You could prop a devastator squad down in front of a aegis to give it tank hunter, at least from what I've seen used.

None of the above, SW acute senses army wide in a codex that has one unit that is outflanking.

It's pretty much worthless.

hobojebus wrote:
None of the above, SW acute senses army wide in a codex that has one unit that is outflanking.

It's pretty much worthless.

They have counter-attack that makes it one of the best.

Imperial fists devs get tank hunter on any weapon they use, including quad guns, they're death to flyers. Plus IF CT makes all of your bolter jockeys actually useful and unlocks two awesome special characters. It's nowhere near the worst.

 EmilCrane wrote:
Imperial fists devs get tank hunter on any weapon they use, including quad guns, they're death to flyers. Plus IF CT makes all of your bolter jockeys actually useful and unlocks two awesome special characters. It's nowhere near the worst.

Yeah in a meta dominated by shooting counter attack is super useful, it's situational at best and against shooting armies utterly irrelevant.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


They have counter-attack that makes it one of the best.

Especially considering how important assault is this edition and how useless shooting is...oh wait

 EmilCrane wrote:
Imperial fists devs get tank hunter on any weapon they use, including quad guns, they're death to flyers. Plus IF CT makes all of your bolter jockeys actually useful and unlocks two awesome special characters. It's nowhere near the worst.

Can I ask how they can use the quad gun in an Aegis line


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh don't mind me I forgot it's a gun emplacement

 Sir Arun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Raven Guard, their chapter tactics aren't abd, but they're the only one I've never heard people talk up. also their soul IC is pretty meh too

I used to think so too, but never underestimate the army wide scout-move. Vehicles dont get it, but dedicated transports do as they'll benefit from the infantry squad inside having it.

Armywide scout allows most of your guys essentially a free movement phase if they plan on going first, or a free redeployment into cover if they realize they will be going second. Add to this the bonus of armywide stealth on turn 1 and you'll see how much more survivable your army will get. Couple it with nightfighting and taking RG out will be a nightmare for the enemy. First turns in 40k can often be decisive. Oh and you get semi-decent Assault Squads as a bonus.

Armywide scout move also allows all your RG infantry to outflank instead, which is tactially a huge advantage.

Sadly ity's limited to non-bulky units. WS can, at a 125 point tax, have all dedicated transports with Scout as well (so LR with Termies/Cents can benefit as well) :/

BT by far. It's a bunch of special rules that tries to make a Codex made for shooting into a workable melee army. Needless to say, it doesn't work. Adamantine Will is situational at best, rerolls and rending in Challenges is rather bad and Crusader, while not bad, isn't that great either.

the42up wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


They have counter-attack that makes it one of the best.

Especially considering how important assault is this edition and how useless shooting is...oh wait

Have you paused to consider that your Chapter Tactic contributes to the fact that shooting is better?

None of them are bad. However, some of them are more restrictive than others when it comes to which armies you can field using those tactics. Black Templars are the most restrictive, in my opinion.