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Thought this was quite interesting. I remember, when I got into 40k the first time, feeling that I had to buy the boxed set, dark millennium, then my codex (£70-75) before I could start buying models and actually learn to play properly (as opposed to using only the rules and lists in the boxed game). At the time, the thought was quite off putting.

Imagine how long it must take now to explain to potential new players where to find all the rules for 40k.....

Of course, I know you don't NEED all this stuff to play, but, at the same time, you want to be aware of all the rules that you may come across.

I'm a big fan of the expansions and IA books and things. All the really thematic stuff. I've just discovered the Renegade lists in IA 6/7 and it's totally changed my Death Guard/Traitor Guard plans for the better (I think). But it must be a daunting prospect for new players.

I've thought this for a while, but I've never seen it all listed quite so clearly as this.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/03/40k-6th-edition-sprawl.html

I agree. Its the only thing I dont like about 40K. The cost. When a player is a part of a club ist not that bad as they have all the info and help already. But if he just wonders in and like what he sees then the price will hurt.

I personally think both GW and FW need to organize a big list of options for both models and books grouped by faction and main rules. If they had a whole section on the site dedicated to this it would make it so much easier to find what you want and see whats available.

but this isnt available. Most people find out through players or the odd forum post. There is nothing to limit the daunt.

We're beginning to see people get into wargaming in my area but not getting into GW games.

That says it all really.

Not much different than flames of war.

Not as many army choices as in napolionics

Personally I think the cost of entry is the biggest damning thing of all. No matter how much you like the figures or the fluff or even the rules, the biggest turn-off is that you have to dump several hundred dollars just for the entry-level force (I don't consider Kill Team or "1 HQ and 2 Troops" to be real games, they are more like demo or special games), and I think that's the reason so many people are going with other systems - even if the cost ends up the same overall (e.g. Warmahordes) the cost to get into the game is much, much lower.

I don't honestly see how people can start the game now. When I got in it was the brb and the codex. Then I just start collecting models.

But the way that everything went in 6th. First you have to get the codex. Then the supplement when that comes out. Then you're going to want to get an ally. Oh but then the ally has a supplement as well. And then you want fancy terrain so now you're using Stronghold Assault. Oh and you'll want to get a Lord of War eventually, better grab escalation too. The LoW you want to use isn't in there? Just grab one of the IA books as well. Just to be on the safe side, better get some data slates thrown in.

When a game system can run anywhere between 2-9 books it should be evident that the system is a bloated mess. Now we're seeing regular dataslate releases. Yay! The hellbrute is now usable. That's good, but why am I being charged extra on top of the codex?

Just because escalation / stronghold assault and all of the supplements / dataslates are out doesn't mean players new to the game have to buy them. Most players new to the game will start out using basic codex units and branch out from there, and if you are just getting into the game you shouldn't be thinking about allies until you have 1000-1500 points of your primary force.

Normally with new players we play 2v2 using 500 points per side (and let them proxy units things to get a feel of the units they like) until they have enough points to go up to 1k per player (and then play 2k to 3k per side with 2-3 players) .... this helps showing them the rules and making it to where they don't have to go buy a massive army just to play.

rule book - $75
codex - $50
HQ - $15
Troop Choice - $35
Troop Choice - $35
Heavy / Fast Attack Choice - $50

Gets you 500 points of space marines (Around $250+ to start off and to finish a army at 1850-2000 points your looking at $500+) ... some xenos armies (and IG) might be more expensive but most people starting out go SM - using ebay to fill out most of your force instead of paying full price also cuts down alot on the cost.

40k is a luxury hobby and really expensive, anyone that plays the game knows this (and new players need to be told also before they start buying models up) ... and with GW it is not going to change anytime soon.

Regarding that huge list of rule sources, I clearly remember when GW conveyed the message that they wanted to stop putting new rules in WD, so that people didn't have to carry around a sheaf of supplemental rules.

I don't think the existence of all these options is a problem. I think the problem is that there is no clear, easy way to indicate which rules options you are using in a game, or a tournament, and there is an unspoken assumption that every rule must be okay every game.

As an illustration, imagine if GW had a new 'rule' called Warzone (like the location books). The Warzone would specify what type of battle you were playing, by 'flipping switches' for things like Superheavies, Escalation, Flyers, Allies, Apocalypse.

For instance, you might have a Kill Team Warzone, which could cut on a limited force org (and points value) and cut off fliers, Superheavies, allies, etc.

You could have a Cityfight Warzone, which might cut off fliers (since the game is assumed to be in the dense urban terrain of a ruined city. The Cityfight Warzone might also make it clear that there should be a lot of dense area terrain which might make it difficult or impossible to place Superheavies easily, and that objectives might be in buildings or ruins which might make it hard for Monstrous Creatures to claim or contest them.

Instead, when you show up, you might have an opponent with a Knight army, or tons of fliers, or all monstrous creatures. You can't reasonably set up a lot of perfectly legal boards (underhives, boarding actions, Zone Mortalis, dense urban ruins) if your opponent might be totally unable to play on them. The 'unrestricted' existence of those options means that any sort of 'pickup' game (including tournaments) has to be fought over a relatively bare board, which really favors certain unit types and models. It also means that a player can't reasonably collect a certain type of army (say, a cityfight themed largely infantry force) without being forced to assume that he's gonna get curbstomped for showing up to games without anti-aircraft and anti-armor capabilities.

Now, if you had well-explained rules for Warzones, you could tell new players:

"Start playing with the Kill Team Warzone. This will give you small games where you can experiment with new units and new rules, and the game will not bog down with complexity that you haven't learned yet. When you feel you have mastered the Kill Team level of play, or you wish to add new and different models to your collections, you might try out these different types of Warzones (if, for example, you really want to add a flyer to your growing army)."

Those options wouldn't look so expensive, because they would clearly be options, and not just 'stuff that will hose you if you don't buy some too".


Just a clarification: I'm not claiming that Superheavies, or Flyers, or Monstrous Creatures, or whatever, are bad. I'm just saying that 'everything, all the time", shouldn't be the default assumption of 40K. The 40K universe is just as much about hive battles, and cityfights, and jungle combat, and boarding actions, as it is about war across an open battlefield.