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I was getting a little bored of my Space Marines and traded it for a sizeable army of Imperial Guard but, I am a little lost and a tad bit overwhelmed.

What are some of the generally used tactics for the Imperial Guard, and what should I be looking for in list building? (I am planning on running a more foot-heavy army, instead of mechanized.)

Hazard30 wrote:
I was getting a little bored of my Space Marines and traded it for a sizeable army of Imperial Guard but, I am a little lost and a tad bit overwhelmed.

What are some of the generally used tactics for the Imperial Guard, and what should I be looking for in list building? (I am planning on running a more foot-heavy army, instead of mechanized.)

This thread will probably be irrelevant in a mere couple weeks, as IG are getting a new codex. So...yeah.

I suggest that you use the search function of this forum. There are so many IG tactics advice threads that even if most won't help you, you'll have reading material to keep you entretained for a month. For IG horde I recomend Alairos' threads, he is a little bit set in his ways but he has a huge number of posts talking about IG with other experienced IG players providing interesting counterpoints to his tactics too.

M.

IG, or as it will soon be known "Astra Militarum" is great because you can adopt a bunch of different battle strategies, and they'll all likely be very different from Space Marines. However, as NuggzTheNinja noted, the new codex will be out in a few weeks.

Basically, you are going to decide where you want your vehicles to hit, and then plan your infantry around that. For instance, I'll have a Leman Russ target the toughest enemy core units: Space Marines, Necron Warriors, Tau Fire Warriors, etc. And with a S8 AP3 large blast, the Leman Russ is going to be taking out whole squads each turn. Chimeras are solid transports, but I like them because they're cheap and tote 2 heavy weapons, they're great at taking out light infantry. Then I use my infantry to focus on any potential threats to my tanks, massing lasgun fire on jet-bikes, assault infantry, or any fast movers that might target my tanks.

A few tips, keep your infantry in cover. Almost every army will slaughter your guardsmen in the open, you will need to get used to taking models off the table, and get used to the idea of sacrificing squads for the mission. You might run 10 guys into an oncoming assault squad to get killed for no reason other than to buy you time. Personally, I like to have a balance of infantry and tanks. I probably spend about 1/3rd of my points on vehicles. And IG get great vehicles for their points cost.

I usually take as little HQ as I can. A Company Command Squad is great for the orders that they can issue, but will be outclassed in close combat, even with considerable investment. I prefer to keep my HQ near my heavy weapons squads. If you have a heavy weapons squad with 3 lascannons, you can issue the Bring It Down order and count your weapons as twin-linked.

Even in smaller games you can squeeze in 3 or more ordnance, large blast tanks. Griffons are only 75 points, get a squad of 3 and you will wreck entire armies. Hellhounds are pricey for a flame weapon, but actually have good range, and good armor.

Take vanilla scout sentinels. For 35 points you get a walker armed with a multilaser, and another 10/10/10 vehicle for the enemy to deal with. My opponents almost always laugh about the sentinels, but then they pour an entire round of bolter fire into the sentinels and only inflict one glancing hit. On average it'll take 18 Space Marine bolter shots to inflict two glancing hits to destroy the sentinel, and in turn sentinels will wound most infantry on 2+.

Avoid the temptation to over upgrade your squads. It's easy to get caught up with the wargear, but you're better off diversifying your army rather than spending lots of points on a few squads. As marines it makes sense to upgrade your commander and get terminators etc. But as IG, it's not usually worth it to pile heavy weapons, armor, wargear, etc into your infantry. You're better off putting those points into heavy weapons squads, more infantry, or my personal favorite, special weapons squads.

Never underestimate the lasgun. Again, people laugh at the lasgun, but when your 50 point squad is unloading 28 shots with the 1st Rank 2nd Rank Fire command, they learn to take the lasgun seriously. You will roll many dice, and often not kill many things, but in the end statistics will have its day, and their precious bikers/marines/fire warriors, will eventually start to fall and you'll have more guardsmen pushing up.

 TheSilo wrote:
Take vanilla scout sentinels. For 35 points you get a walker armed with a multilaser, and another 10/10/10 vehicle for the enemy to deal with. My opponents almost always laugh about the sentinels, but then they pour an entire round of bolter fire into the sentinels and only inflict one glancing hit. On average it'll take 18 Space Marine bolter shots to inflict two glancing hits to destroy the sentinel, and in turn sentinels will wound most infantry on 2+.

This is bad advice. Sentinels are only "durable" if you only shoot bolters at them, once you attack them with heavier weapons they die very quickly. Even a basic melta gun and heavy bolter (the bare minimum you can expect a tactical squad to be armed with) will tear them apart. Meanwhile wounding on a 2+ doesn't mean much when you don't ignore armor saves, so your Sentinel is barely more effective than an equal point value of basic guardsmen with lasguns at 24", and less effective than the guardsmen in rapid fire range. Add FRFSRF to the guardsmen and the Sentinel becomes a cruel joke.

And of course there's also the Vendetta to consider. 105 points gets you three basic Sentinels, or 130 points gets you a Vendetta with vastly superior firepower and durability along with transport capacity for a scoring unit. Until/unless the new codex nerfs the Vendetta severely this isn't even a question.

The difference is that scout sentinels, have 36" range, and move and fire. It's easy to stay 12" away from meltas. And if they're wasting their heavy weapon shots at my sentinels, that means they're not shooting at my tanks. I take sentinels every game, and they're always a great asset.

 TheSilo wrote:
The difference is that scout sentinels, have 36" range, and move and fire. It's easy to stay 12" away from meltas. And if they're wasting their heavy weapon shots at my sentinels, that means they're not shooting at my tanks. I take sentinels every game, and they're always a great asset.

True that.

 TheSilo wrote:
The difference is that scout sentinels, have 36" range, and move and fire. It's easy to stay 12" away from meltas. And if they're wasting their heavy weapon shots at my sentinels, that means they're not shooting at my tanks. I take sentinels every game, and they're always a great asset.

This. Plus they can outflank, plus they can get a pretty respectable cover save, plus you can charge things (I love to use them to tie up gaunts!). I'd...have a hard time justifying a squad of three lascannon-toting sentinels over a Vendetta, but I like pretty much all the other scout loadouts. Mine usually pack missile launchers these days.

 Spinner wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
The difference is that scout sentinels, have 36" range, and move and fire. It's easy to stay 12" away from meltas. And if they're wasting their heavy weapon shots at my sentinels, that means they're not shooting at my tanks. I take sentinels every game, and they're always a great asset.

This. Plus they can outflank, plus they can get a pretty respectable cover save, plus you can charge things (I love to use them to tie up gaunts!). I'd...have a hard time justifying a squad of three lascannon-toting sentinels over a Vendetta, but I like pretty much all the other scout loadouts. Mine usually pack missile launchers these days.

You're merely stating what Sentinels can do though.

The issue is that these things aren't that important for IG, especially from an IG Fast Attack slot.

No one can argue that the Sentinel "can do stuff", but there are other units that do much better things, and are much more competitive in a Guard army. It is one thing to recommend Sentinel tactics when a player is asking how to use Sentinels, but suggesting a new IG player use Sentinels as a competitive option isn't that productive, because they really aren't one.

Unfortunately, the best thing about sentinels is that they come essentially free in an IG Battleforce, and are fun to model.

You can't see a reason to outflank missile launchers or autocannons? Or a reason to draw fire with what is essentially a disposable, cheap investment? Or have expendable searchlights on the board at the start of the game? Or charge and tie up a massive unit of gaunts that have to stick around in the combat because they're Fearless? I can see all of these things being important for a Guard army, and I think listing off their attributes is a pretty decent way to infer their uses. More than saying "this unit is bad because there's a bunch of other stuff that does things better"

I'm not saying that Vendettas and Valkyries are bad. Far from it. Like I said, if I want lascannons in a fast attack slot, they won't be on Sentinels. And a lot of people will say that the aircraft are a more competitive choice. But hey, I don't see why you can't take both and find a use for them. There's three Fast Attack slots, and unless you're doing a drop-troops or air cavalry army, you don't really need to fill them all with flyers.

I have a few Sentinel models so I will try them out. Even if they do not do much, the opponent will ether forget they are outflanked, or have to plan for them coming on. Sometimes that is all you need. I also only have 1 flyer currently and until the new codex will probably wont be picking any up(since they are probably subject to alot of change)

I am curious about the whole Veteran Squad vs Platoon Squad. I tend to lean towards the Platoon Squad for the sheer versatility. as well as the bodies you can put on the table. But where does the Vet-Squad come in? What is their place on the battlefield?

Also, would it be a smart idea to keep PCS and CCS relatively bare? I think throwing Vox casters in squads is a great idea, but the points add up. I am also a big fan of Commissars due to the Cain and Gaunt novels. What is there place in the Imperial Guard army? both in a competitive environment, or a fun-frienly one?

I like the sentinels because they're good at the oddjobs, taking out light vehicles, tying up S3 squads, etc. But on a thread about IG generally, let's not get hung up on the application of sentinels (especially since I just noticed that the new ones cost $30 each, yikes!).

Back to Hazard's questions. Here's a 1500 point army I ran recently. I've got two ordnance/blast tanks in the Russ and Demolisher which will destroy anything on the table. In this particular battle I ended up teamed with another IG against Necrons/Dark Angels, so the Demolisher was crushing terminators. I used my Ogryns to get into combat with Marines/Necron Warriors and tie them up. I used the heavy flamer sentinels to guard my infantry lines against assault (though because I ended against such well armored opponents their flamers didn't do much, but I was able to tie up some more squads from assaulting my lines).

I used the storm troopers to deep strike and sniper the marine devastator squad. I kept my special weapons squads in cover until the enemy closed, then popped them out for the plasma run rapid fire shots.

I packed the infantry in tight to defend the tanks with my ally who had basilisks. Our lines were so tight that we denied the Dark Angels player his deep strike and he had to come down in front of our whole firing line, rather than behind our lines and tanks like he'd wanted.

Personally I prefer grenade launchers for their 5 points cost, and decent profile. Plasma guns are a must, but since their more pricey, I don't take as many, in favor of more guardsmen. I'd avoid meltas except for dedicated tank-hunters or special weapons squads, with their short range you're still going to BS3 for the one shot that you'll get.

This isn't a great list, but hopefully it'll give you a basic idea, I tried to make a balanced list, and just ended up against Necrons/Marines, wasn't designed for them specifically. A smart trade might be subbing out the Ogryns for a basilisk, but my ally had two basilisks so he had that covered.

Command Squad
Power Fist
Bolter

Storm Troopers (5)
Grenade Launcher
Plasma Gun

Ogryn Squad (3)

Platoon CS
Autocannon
Sniper Rifle
Bolter

Guardsmen
Flamer
Bolt Pistol

Guardsmen
Flamer
Bolt Pistol

Heavy Weapons Squad
Heavy Bolters (3)

Heavy Weapons Squad
Missile Launchers (3)

Special Weapons Squad
Plasma Guns (3)

Special Weapon Squad
Melta Guns (3)

Platoon CS
Autocannon
Bolt Pistol

Guardsmen
Grenade Launcher

Guardsmen
Grenade Launcher

Bane Wolf

Sentinel
Heavy Flamer

Sentinel
Heavy Flamer

Leman Russ
Lascannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Demolisher
Lascannon

To start with the last question and link it to the first, Commissars do best in platoons, attached to an infantry squad that you intend to blob up. That way, you get him looking over the shoulder of thirty or so guardsmen instead of ten. I wouldn't put them with an officer squad, as you really don't want them blowing your company commander's head off because he looked off-table a little too longingly. They're an excellent way to keep the troops in order, but you usually only need one of them.

A lot of people don't bother with the voxes, either - I've tried them, but only if you're willing to keep the officer squad in question close to the troops, and then you have to dedicate points to giving them voxes too, so it's best used on something that can really make it count. A blob squad, perhaps, or a veteran plasma squad. Voxes are also probably best used on a CCS instead of a PCS for a number of reasons - you have more orders to give and options to choose from, and you don't always want all of your Commander's buddies carrying special weapons, unlike the Platoon officer's meatshi...valued staff members. Those guys usually take to the field toting flamers, because nothing says revenge anti-assault unit like four flamers bearing down on whoever just ate your front line. Cheap, cheerful, incredibly deadly, and can toss a couple of basic orders around too. Cases can be made for most of the other weapons, but flamers are the usual go-to. The CCS can be kitted out any number of ways, including bare bones, but it's usually better to try and use it for something beyond orders. A lot of people give them as many plasma or meltaguns as they can carry, stick 'em in a Chimera, and rain death on the enemy - I tend to ignore the special weapons as I like the Master of Ordinance, and since the whole unit would have to fire at one target...doesn't really mix well. But it's a good idea to give the commander some kind of protection - a Chimera, carapace, camo-cloaks, whatever you have the points for/works best with your army.

Veterans are the ones you want to cripplingly overspecialize and then point right at their target. Need something to kill Terminators or Monstrous Creatures? Three plasma guns and a Chimera (three plasma guns, Grenadiers, and a vox if you have bug problems!). Don't like tanks? Three meltaguns and a Chimera. Don't like everything? Three meltaguns, a Chimera, and Demolitions. And maniacal laughter. That unit is one of my favorites. Give 'em shotguns if you feel like it - it's probably a slight downgrade, but they can be helpful in very specialized situations (read: you took Demolitions and meltaguns, but didn't deal quite enough damage to the tank or Monstrous Creature to finish it off. Ten meltabombs are not to be sneezed at.) Bottom line is, these guys work like your CCS - they have a lot of killing power, but they're still squishy humans and you ought to protect them.

Unlike those scrubs in the regular Platoons.

Hazard30 wrote:
I have a few Sentinel models so I will try them out. Even if they do not do much, the opponent will ether forget they are outflanked, or have to plan for them coming on. Sometimes that is all you need. I also only have 1 flyer currently and until the new codex will probably wont be picking any up(since they are probably subject to alot of change)

I am curious about the whole Veteran Squad vs Platoon Squad. I tend to lean towards the Platoon Squad for the sheer versatility. as well as the bodies you can put on the table. But where does the Vet-Squad come in? What is their place on the battlefield?

Also, would it be a smart idea to keep PCS and CCS relatively bare? I think throwing Vox casters in squads is a great idea, but the points add up. I am also a big fan of Commissars due to the Cain and Gaunt novels. What is there place in the Imperial Guard army? both in a competitive environment, or a fun-frienly one?

People will argue both ways, for vets vs platoons. It's really personal preference. Vets excel when you use their BS4 to full effect with special weapons and heavy weapons, but they're also great with 1st Rank 2nd Rank. The weakness I think is that you don't get the other great options that come with platoons, i.e. heavy weapons squads, conscripts, special weapons squads. When I use vets, I put them in chimeras, on turn one I'm deploying smoke launchers and/or deploying my vets into cover. You do not want to leave them in the open, unless you get the grenadiers (4+ save) doctrine. If you take the chimeras, your vehicles will give a more tempting target and your vets can take a great support shooting role. This choice is only gonna be settled through you experimenting, I still switch back and forth depending on the match up.

Vox casters are good. The orders are so powerful, and a re-roll with that sargeant's 8 leadership is a huge bonus, especially if you've got vet squads carrying multiple special/heavy weapons, use Bring it Down against vehicles and monstrous creatures for re-roll misses.

Some people love commissars, I'm less enthusiastic. They confer stubborn and their leadership to the squad, which is great. They add some serious close combat punch to regular squads, but I'd leave them out of command squads, the risk of execution to your company/platoon commanders is too great. If they're dead they can't issue orders. Mostly, they're just too many points imo. For the cost of two commissars you can just get a whole 'nother unit of guardsmen. Love the fluff and models, use the models for my commanders and platoon commanders, but don't usually field commissars myself.

Hazard30 wrote:
I was getting a little bored of my Space Marines and traded it for a sizeable army of Imperial Guard but, I am a little lost and a tad bit overwhelmed.

What are some of the generally used tactics for the Imperial Guard, and what should I be looking for in list building? (I am planning on running a more foot-heavy army, instead of mechanized.)

In list building, There's a few things that are currently true.

1. Put Marbo in. Doesn't matter WHAT the rest of the list does. Take him.

2. A Vendetta is an easy choice as purchases go. Have two if you can, but no less than one.

3. If Vets is your thing, Chimeras should be too. The new Taurox vehicle may somewhat replace it in some forces.

4. Creed is worth it.

5. Daemon Circus's and Mechdar plus a large number of other lists use aerial stuff quite Frequently. I do not think the Hydras are a bad deal with the weay people are building things now.

6. Aegis Defense Lines should be pushed to midfield and not cock block your movement in the backfield. Thew new rules make moving guard much more effective.

7 Psycher defense is highly advsed. Take the Primaris Psyker and perhaps an allied Coteaz for the army, with Creed. That does a lot to defend you against the more mortifyiung lists like the all Tzeentch Daemon lists Im struggling against right now and any other that uses heavy Psyker attacks.

See where that takes ya'

hmm ok...

Just throwing this out there based on what I have read here. Will probably change in a few weeks, but what's the harm. I really like the idea of Orgyns, but I do not have any ATM, just gotta wait till the new book.

HQ:
CCS
Carapace Armour
Power sword
Master of Ordnance

Elites:
Guardsman Marbo

Troops: (Repeat Twice)
Platoon Command Squad
3x Flamers
Vox Caster

2x Infantry Squad
Grenade Launcher
Vox Caster

Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Missles

Special Weapons Squad
3x Plasma

Fast Atttack:
Vendetta
Lascannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Heavy Support:
2x Battle Tank
Flamers

Vanquisher
Knight Commander Pask

I still have some other things sitting around, but how is this for a all-comers, semi-competitive, wait around till the new book list?

Well fortunately you will use almost all of this in the new codex too. WHICH tanks might be in question. But this looks pretty good. Im not a fan of the vanquisher, but I see the necessity of it in THIS list. It's about all you took tat can whack the big boy tanks and you dont want the Vendetta tasked with that while flyers are about.

Dont squadron tanks. unless you are forced to. lots of down sides, no real upsides worth the risk.

But yeah this looks very reliable and you can EASILY morph what you have here when the new book comes out. Nail on the head.

I will reiterate my deep seated fears about flying lists though and remind you that Hydras may well be a must, despite their situational nature. Mechdar, Land Speeders, Daemon Circus, Storm Ravens and the like are as common as Vanilla ice cream and Hydras work just fine against skimmers AND flyers.

Master of Ordinance is not a good investment by the way. Buy three Meltaguns for that price and load a Vendetta full of them. You'll thank me later.

I'd probably throw a missile launcher or lascannon on the command squad. BS4 and can hit similar targets to the Master of Ordnance, and both are best when you stand still. Keep your CCS within 12" of that missile HWS for Bring it Down and Fire on my Target and your enemy will hate you.

I like to run small squads of ogryns, mostly for fun, but they're often something the other side didn't plan for. I like playing with storm troopers too, again just for fun. Lots of folks will even argue that one elite for IG is too many. I usually take only one.

Personally, I'd probably drop the heavy bolters on the vendetta. With those twin-linked lascannons you're going to be shooting vehicles, terminators, and monstrous creatures. Those heavy bolter sponsons won't be doing much, even if you get a lascannon weapon destroyed. I'd put those points into a hull weapon for your tanks. I don't think you can snap-shot the heavy flamers on your leman russ tanks, so any weapon destroyed result will basically take the tank out of the game.

I like the heavy bolters. quite the straifing run they can make with them.

I just have 10 free points somewhere, so I just threw it anywhere. It can easily move around, the Heavy Weapon on the CCS would be good to give them something to do in the shooting phase.