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2014/03/29 14:54:23
Subject: Idea for a Miniature Wargame set in Ancient Europe.
Before proceeding, know that this discussion as based around an idea that isn't supposed to leave the drawing board - it simply a board for exploring a concept and the limitations and possabilities it can bring.
I was in the cinema watching the new 300 movie the other day with my class, and though the movie wasn't anything I would describe with positive words, it did give me an idea. I am a student of latin and ancient greek, and so I get to learn a lot about actual happenings from ancient times in Europe, including battles and wars. While learning about the Gaulish War of Caesar and the war against Persia in Greece and after Watching 300 and 300: Rise of an Empire and learning how inaccurate both films are, I were left with the need to reenact some of those wars, in a wargame. I started imagining how each faction would play, how the general gameplay would be, if there would be any mythical creatures or characters in the game and how list-building would work.
In the end, I ended up deciding that I would write it here on DakkaDakka, so you vets can critize and add to the idea, if you feel like it - I don't know all about Ancient Europe, so you guys might be able to help in that apartment.
Find your Hoplit helmet, get your Gladius and pray to Teutates - We are going back in time!
General Concept. - The point to the game is to have a strategic tabletop wargame that represents each model and faction faithfully to the source material left from those times. Lists do not have to be made after wars that has actually happened, so you could potentially have Hercules and Ceasar battle the Persian Empire and it would still be legal rulewise.
- The game doesn't have to be completely faithful to history - Characters of myth or religion, like the gods or certain heroes like Xenophon and Achilles. Mythical creatures and characters may be added to a standing force if the creator feels like it (Think Mercs or Minions from Warmahordes)
- Each model uses a square base akin to Warhammer Fantasy and is of a 20-30 mm size.
- The game will be strategic and based around movement and ordering your units to do the right thing at the right moment, like ordering a Hoplit to do a Brace stance in their turn to fend of a charge that will come next turn.
- Despite this, it is not meant to be taken as seriously as games like Flames of War - It is still a game to have fun with, while still being strategically and mentally challenging, if possible.
General rules. - Model types are Infantry, Cavalry, Chariots, Artillery, Siege and Monstrous. Base size may vary.
- The game is skirmish sized, with a focus on three to six units of Infantry, Cavalry or Chariots supported by other models.
- Infantry, as well as Cavalry and Chariots, must be in a unit. Every turn a unit may do one Movement, recieve one Order as well as do one Attack. Heroes, Officers and your Warlord may be in a unit if so desired, but must then be in a unit of its own kind of model (Infantry heroes go in Infantry units, etc.).
- Movement. All units barring Artillery and Siege can move and attack. These are available to all units.
-- March: Good speed, keeping coherency. Standard movement.
-- Jog: Very good speed and manuverability, but no Attacking. good for repositions and messing with your opponent.
-- Trailing: Out of formation movement to get through narrow spots and terrain. Situational, but allows spreading your units more wildly and can be a pain to fight for Chariots and Monsters.
- Order. An Officer can issue an Order to the unit by passing a command test. Orders can change Attacks or Movement or allow for vastly different actions altogether. If the Order doesn't change Attacks or Movement, then it doesn't affect the rest of the activation - so Movement, Order and Attack in the same activation is fully possible. These can be made by all Officers.
-- Break Up: The unit breaks its formation.
-- Reform: Unit goes into formation.
-- Brace: The unit prepares for enemy charges. Let the unit do damage to charging opponents.
-- Charge: A fastmoving assault at enemy ranks. Allows for a very powerful attack at the end of the movement.
- Attack: Unit uses its weapon of choice, wether ranged or melee. I am thinking of using 2D6 to get a bigger chance of getting a mediocre results instead of complete randomness.
- Each model isn't very special in itself - Only a few normal actions are available to them as a start. Each type of model gains new abilities, stats or actions by having Officers or Heroes attatched to their unit or simply in the army. An example could be the normal Hoplits, who normally are pretty hard and efficent heavy Infantry, with the option for the Officer to order a Shield Wall. With Achilles, however, all Hoplits become Myrmedions, gaining more damage and skill on the attack and and gets boost to mobility - Another case would be Leonidas, who turns his Hoplits into defence machines, who have the effective Thermopylæian Wall, a very tough and almost unbreakable defensive Order. Most models doesn't have more than one Order as a start though, so you will have to rely on Characters to get diversity to your troops.
- Your Warlord and Officers, as well as some Heroes, can issue Orders to nearby units, even if they are not in the same unit. This will make your Characters more important to the army all in all.
- As described above, some characters can change some, if not all of your units to another type, changing them to Special Units. If two characters can change the same unit, you choose which goes and which doesn't. You can have more than one type of Special unit in your army.
- I have thought of having no turns, but rather one activation for you, then one for the opposite player. This means than you constantly have to cover your hindquarters, so the enemy can't break your plan while you are trying to perform it.
Factions.
- The Citystates of Hellas: Uses the same models, but with different rules. Only Sparta and Athens is here, mainly because the other states aren't really interesting. The citystates are generally infantry heavy and melee centered, and uses few models compared to other factions, making them great for starters. The faction can use the Roman-Hellenese Mythology as supporting models.
-- Sparta: Infantry heavy, with some of the best melee fighters in the game. Most models are expensive, but also very effective - They lack nothing in defence and offence, but their low number tends to give them problems. Sparta has some really great Heroes who can easily hold themselves in combat.
-- Athens: Also based a lot around infantry, but uses Orders and mobility more than Sparta. Can be very hard to pin down if played properly, but they can't take much direct damage. Because of their movement buffs, they are great to use Chariots with.
- The Roman Empire: As balanced as they come. The Roman Empire can do anything well and have Characters for all jobs. They shine with Cavalry in particular, while their normal soldiers are a easy to make in big blocks. It is important to remember though, that the Roman Empire isn't the most well trained of the factions and are therefor very dependent on their Orders and leaders. The Romans do Orders very well however and have some of the nastiest Orders available. The Roman Empire can use the Roman-Hellenese Mythology as supporting models.
- The Persian Empire: The Persians favor archers and Chariots a lot, and as such is an interesting army to play, as they have both powerful melee in the Chariots and good shooting through their archers. You will usually have a powerful core of Chariots along some troops with both melee and ranged abilities - The Persian Infantry is solid, though not as well equipped as the Romans or as powerful as the Hellenese. The Persian Empire can use the Persian Mythology as supporting models.
- The Gaulish Tribes: The Gauls are cheap, numerous and excellent at using the terrain to their advantage. Their melee tend to be a bit suicidical, but as they can choose their battles well through terrain and denial tactics, they don't need to be at the offence like many other melee factions at all times. Their ranged is good as well, but keep in mind that they break easily in melee. Be sure to outmaneuver your enemy instead of recieving them! The Gauls can use the Celtic Mythology as supporting models.
Interesting, but one comment. I always thought the roman military wasnt very reliant on cavalry? Especially since they didn't use stirrups. Maybe instead give them a buff to their infantry with weapons like pilum that shred defense or is anti cavalry.
Ustrello wrote: Interesting, but one comment. I always thought the roman military wasnt very reliant on cavalry? Especially since they didn't use stirrups. Maybe instead give them a buff to their infantry with weapons like pilum that shred defense or is anti cavalry.
A good point. The thing is, the Romans had a lot of light cavalry, and most officers used them - Ceasar was famous for using his horseriders during the Gaulish War. Though it makes sense to gear the infantry up - They did have many different weapons, including the spear, the throwing spear and the gladius.
2014/03/29 15:32:39
Subject: Idea for a Miniature Wargame set in Ancient Europe.
ExNoctemNacimur wrote: Sounds like an interesting idea, but you're probably misrepresenting the Gallic tribes a bit.
Propably - I am still a student after all
The point is that we don't know a whole lot about them. Ceasar described them in his reports, but beyond that few people ever truly wrote down some facts about them.
Oh, and I imagine Asterix and Obelix as a Mythical Hero Unit for the Gauls, just because we can.
2014/03/29 17:16:07
Subject: Idea for a Miniature Wargame set in Ancient Europe.
There's a professor emeritus of Oxford called Sir Barry Cunliffe who does/did (I'm not sure if he's still active) a lot of research on Celtic Iron age civilization, so he could be good if you're looking for a bit more info.
And a few more ideas for heroes: Divicos, Vercingetorix and Brennus (either one is badass), and regarding mythology, you could have guys like Cernunnos (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-96gVX7gQJzc/TyBI532HZ6I/AAAAAAAAPA4/jrz21Dd0dzE/s1600/cernunnos3.jpg from the Gundestrup cauldron, a pretty cool looking goddess) or Lugus. You may have to use Irish mythology as a bit of a crutch since it's the most similar thing to continental Celtic mythology (if the hypothesis is true that these languages are older, and there's a lot of academic research done to demonstrate that, for example, Cu Chulainn's myth would have been a widespread myth, and there are cognates such as Lugh/Lugus and Taranis/Tuireann).
Regarding the actual function of the armies, one has to keep in mind that the numbers mentioned in a classical source are greatly overstated (there wouldn't have been 5 million invaders of Greece during the Persian Wars, nor would Caesar have defeated 300,000 Helvetii). It may be slightly anachronistic to describe the Persians as using chariots extensively - that was more a Bronze Age feature. Lots of archers though, and a strong cavalry. Also keep in mind that the Immortals were likely armed not too differently from the standard Achaemenid forces, based on surviving reliefs from Persepolis and things. Chariots may be more fitting for the Gaulish forces.
2014/03/29 19:47:00
Subject: Idea for a Miniature Wargame set in Ancient Europe.
Nice idea. I'm afraid I find it a bit confusing that you chastise these films for not being accurate, and then go on to involve monstrous creatures from mythology. That aside, check out the morrigan/morrigu from celtic mythology. A bad ass crone that'll have your soul.
