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I'm in a bit of a delema here. I am trying to find an army where I enjoy the fluff, and can play that army on a less competitive field. I already play Tau and have a large collection now. It can be argued that Tau is one of the best armies in the game. I have narrowed down my decision to Raven Guard and Iron Hands. I like both of their stories, and they both have models I like. I'll start with the Iron Hands.

I like the Iron Hands due to their rules and because I think the Contemptor Dreadnought from FW is absolutely beautiful. The way I would be running this army is like a moving wall. Multiple mechanized tanks and Dreads that all pretty much advance foreward.

Raven Guard: So far I am leaning this way. I have made a list that I really like and is also semi-competitive. I like the fluff for these guys too. The only thing that is holding me back from going out right now and building this army is that they don't have a Contemptor. I know that its SM so I could run one, but comparing the chapter tactics of these two armies, the Contrmptor doesn't really fit into the the stealth theme of Raven Guard. The Iron Hands also have rules for vehicles that are quite helpful.

In summary, I am looking to build one of these armies. I can't build both dispute wanting too due to the fact that it would break my bank. Can you help me make the decision? Let me know what you think below, and tell me why you support the side you do!

Iron Hands because Iron Hands is awesome. Great fluff and awesome modelling possibilities and great rules.
Raven Guard are nice as well, both fluff and rulewise, but they are more limited in modelling and fluffy lists.

You could do Raptors too if your looking for a sneaky shooty army =D they are pretty cool too.

But I ask what do you enjoy seeing more? a moving wall of tanks and machines slowly crushing into the enemy, or a more sneaky ambush force?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
You could do Raptors too if your looking for a sneaky shooty army =D they are pretty cool too.

But I ask what do you enjoy seeing more? a moving wall of tanks and machines slowly crushing into the enemy, or a more sneaky ambush force?

Raptors do sound cool, but I think I want to stick to one of these two armies. I'll definitely check them out more though! Personally, I enjoy seeing the brute force of large machines descending upon my opponent. Although I do like that, stealth is pretty darn cool too! My Raven Guard list features a lot of Marines in Rhinos so I am quenching my "thirst" for a moving wall of brute force! (Despite the fact Rhinos aren't that strong or large!)


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 Iron_Captain wrote:
Iron Hands because Iron Hands is awesome. Great fluff and awesome modelling possibilities and great rules.
Raven Guard are nice as well, both fluff and rulewise, but they are more limited in modelling and fluffy lists.

Could you please explain and give examples of these modeling possibilities you talk of?

Raven Guard are considered to be less competitive than other armies, so that gets my vote. I would like to see someone prove that the conventional wisdom is just so much doomsaying.

Voted Raven Guard myself because the last thing the meta needs is everyone dog piling on the "best" choices and since the codex hit it seems like everyone wants a peice of that Iron Hand pie.

So be different!

I just started raven guard. I am loving them. I just painted 50 or so infantry and I cant wait to try them out. I actually really like their tactics. Everyone having scout/out flank lets you switch it up and come at your enemy from a few different angles.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2190022a

great way to start!

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
You could do Raptors too if your looking for a sneaky shooty army =D they are pretty cool too.

But I ask what do you enjoy seeing more? a moving wall of tanks and machines slowly crushing into the enemy, or a more sneaky ambush force?

Raptors do sound cool, but I think I want to stick to one of these two armies. I'll definitely check them out more though! Personally, I enjoy seeing the brute force of large machines descending upon my opponent. Although I do like that, stealth is pretty darn cool too! My Raven Guard list features a lot of Marines in Rhinos so I am quenching my "thirst" for a moving wall of brute force! (Despite the fact Rhinos aren't that strong or large!)


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 Iron_Captain wrote:
Iron Hands because Iron Hands is awesome. Great fluff and awesome modelling possibilities and great rules.
Raven Guard are nice as well, both fluff and rulewise, but they are more limited in modelling and fluffy lists.

Could you please explain and give examples of these modeling possibilities you talk of?

The Iron Hands really like to replace parts of themselves with cybernetics and machines, so that offers more than usual freedom for converting your marines. You can really turn them into something unique:

Voting Iron Hands, because they're more metal.

 reiner wrote:
Voting Iron Hands, because they're more metal.

Ravenguard is a much more dynamic army and takes a lot less money to make them good. Ravenguard got best general at a 64 person GT so they cannot be called non competitive anymore. They perhaps are not the easiest army to win big events with but they are clearly in the category of armies that can.

Iron Hands are nice if you want to play aircav or large numbers of non transport tanks. Scout is much better on a rhino or razorback than IWND ever will be. However if you want to put a bunch of contemptor mortis and FW heavy support tanks on the table this is the best chapter tactic. However this is the best IH build and the only one that might become a contender. It is also insanely expensive as though very nice looking the forgeworld tanks and contemtors are expensive. The biggest problem is iron hands are either a relatively static gunline or a air cav army. They do not have the fun dynamic play style of the ravenguard which tends to be a great army to play or play against.

Either army can be made to look good and has serious conversion possibilities but Iron Hands tend to look better due to the metal motif and the large number of forgeworld vehicles that tend to find their way into it.

Raven Guard because their fluff and style is cool as hell but their rules are pretty sucky and there's few viable builds

Iron Hands if you don't care about the fact that their fluff paints them as unreasonable asses that see their primarch as weak, detest most other people- especially chapters who got stomped at Istvann, fit themselves with bionics completely ignoring the wishes of their primarch, and generally get the worse end of all the fluff where BL or GW needs another faction to look cool by killing astartes, etc....

Tl:dr their fluff sucks but their game advantages are the among best so whatever, play them, Its not like anything else matters

30k raven guard is the correct answer

I think raven guard just aren't good. Scout is good, but just not worth it compared to it will not die and 6+ FNP on everybody.

Iron Hands without a doubt because metal!!

Interesting to see that RG is the flavor of the month. My vote goes to IH having the better trait.

Definitely keep all the support coming! So far I a leaning towards RG, but I'm still open.

Some people have been saying that RG isn't competitive. I totally disagree. If you have a skilled player playing them, I think they can be really dangerous. Put a bunch of Tac Marines in Rhinos, deploy up, scout up, move, and you would have a lot of shots your opponent would have to deal with Turn 1

Thanks for a the help so far!



Can you please explain to me how this is a great way to start? I'm just not seeing it, not trying to be critical.


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 krazynadechukr wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2190022a

great way to start!

There's no problem having a Contemptor Dreadnought in a Raven Guard army due to stealth - they have battle barges, which isn't exactly a pair of car keys either. They're a SM chapter with the entire menagerie of SM units.

I don't really think that Raven Guard fluff makes much sense with the way Raven Guard play on the table- IMO the chapter tactics really only lend themselves to mass rhino rush, which is about as sneaky as a wave of rampaging orks. I guess outflanking is the sneaky part about it?

Anyway, scouting makes for some very fun, fast-paced games. I always have fun playing that CT.

Is this a 30K post?

If you are collecting 30K from FW you cannot go wrong with either Legion.

(Also could you add [30K] prefix to the subject, I'm trying to convince LEGO to setup a 30K mini-board. Without evidence of posts he won't do it, if I can show that by searching [30k] on the post titles, he can see the level of interest clearly!

 mwnciboo wrote:
Is this a 30K post?

If you are collecting 30K from FW you cannot go wrong with either Legion.

(Also could you add [30K] prefix to the subject, I'm trying to convince LEGO to setup a 30K mini-board. Without evidence of posts he won't do it, if I can show that by searching [30k] on the post titles, he can see the level of interest clearly!

Nope, this is all about 40k

He just wants to use the Contemptor under 40k rules... Fair enough, they are nice, although Walkers aren't great these days.

 mwnciboo wrote:
He just wants to use the Contemptor under 40k rules... Fair enough, they are nice, although Walkers aren't great these days.

True, but you are putting out quite alot of shots, and in a centralized position on the board, they can draw a lot of fire and be quite a pest for your opponent before they bring it down (the first one at least)

Colpicklejar wrote:I don't really think that Raven Guard fluff makes much sense with the way Raven Guard play on the table- IMO the chapter tactics really only lend themselves to mass rhino rush, which is about as sneaky as a wave of rampaging orks. I guess outflanking is the sneaky part about it?

Anyway, scouting makes for some very fun, fast-paced games. I always have fun playing that CT.

The sneaky part is having 6 rhinos and 60 SM appear 12" from the enemy before they can shoot a shot. Scout is a perfect USR to give to represent sneaky. It gives outflank and allows you to shift your entire army after the opponent sets up. It is just speed magnifies all effects.

Raven Guard...sneaky fast guys with great fluff (OK, I like Iron Hands too...not bad...) aaaaand...beakies!

Not many have metioned outflank in detail. 2/3 of the time being able to place a unit ANYWHERE from the board edge you prefer. 1/3 of the time ANYWHERE on the board edge that isnt your first preference. That is amazing. Especially with a 6" move and 6" disembark! With lots of outflanking units you can concentrate against opponents units at any particular point, whilst avoiding their largest concentrations. Also if you have units come on from both flanks, then if a vehicle wants to deal with them they MUST show their rear armour to some units! Tl lascannons love shafting tanks in the rear!