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*************** 1 HQ ***************

Captain
- artificer armor
+ - relic blade
- shield eternal
- melta bombs
+ - Space-Marine-Bike
- - - > 210 points

Command Squad (he will be joining these guys)
- Space Marine Bikes
- apothecary
+ 4 Veterans with Grav Guns
- - - > 210 points

my primary deathstar. mobile, can take enormous amounts of punishment, and dish out accordingly as well. 3 wounds, 2+/3++/5+++ FNP on the tanking captain, 12 grav gun shots delivered each turn.


*************** 1 Elites ***************

Sternguard-Squad
10 Veterans
- 4 x combi-melta
- 1 x combi-flamer
- 4 x combi-plasma
+ Sarge with
- 1 x combi-flamer
+ - dedicated transport: Drop Pod (my tertiary deathstar, due to it being the most vulnerable. it is a one-trick pony, really. this squad will combat squad when disembarking from the pod - that way the guys with the meltas will target a tank, while the others target infantry. The Pod will touch down on turn 1, which is also the turn I will be using the tactical doctrine to minimize the chance of the combi-meltas failing. Each squad also gets one guy with a combi-flamer to boost their overwatch or get the chance to fry some more infantry if the need arises
- - - > 365 points

*************** 2 Troops ***************

Scout Squad
5 Scouts
- 5 x cc-weapons
+ Landspeeder Storm
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 100 points

my objective grabbers. they'll hide behind LoS blocking terrain until late game and then zoom to an objective and disembark and charge the following turn, hopefully clearing off any light resistance. The Storm's Heavy Flamer and blind grenades should help in this department

Scout Snipers
5 Scouts
- 4 x Sniper Rifles
- camo cloaks
- Sergeant Telion (he will man the Icarus Lascannon with his BS6 to snipe enemies like characters, special weapon guys etc with that S9 AP3 weapon. Also, it doubles as my secondary anti-flyer unit. Relatively survivable behind the ADL rocking a 2+ cover save (stealth and +1 to cover due to cloaks. Their job is to also sit on the home objective)
- - - > 117 points


*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************

Centurion-Devastator Squad
3 Centurions
- 3 x Missile Launchers
- 3 x Grav Cannons with Gravamps
- Omniscope
+ - dedicated transport: Land Raider Phobos
- Extra Armor
- Multimelta
- - - > 560 points

my secondary deathstar. Move 6" with Land Raider on turn 1, disembark, move another 6"and shoot everything at 2 different squads. Re-rolling all 1s during shooting (tactical doctrine) will help make those grav volleys deadly. And, if no enemy infantry is nearby but tanks are, those MLs that also get to re-roll 1s will make this squad a good vehicle hunter too.

The Land Raider Phobos complements the squad's AT-firepower nicely thanks to its own 3 AT guns.

Devastator Squad
5 Space Marines
- 4 x Missile Launchers
- 4 x Flak ammo
- - - > 170 points

my main Flyer-Hunters. they also pack a good punch against tanks and can be useful against infantry as well

Vindicator
- Antaro Chronus
- Dozerblade
- - - > 180 points

A tank that can't be shaken or stunned, has a BS5 demolisher cannon, and regenerates lost hullpoints on a 5+ every turn is another headache for the enemy. Another tool to mess up his target priorities when its moving toward him with the rest of my stuff.

*************** 1 Fortification ***************

Aegis-Defence Line
- Icarus Lascannon emplacement
- - - > 85 points

I'll place my home objective behind the ADL. This is also where I'll deploy my scout snipers and devastators.


Total Space Marines : 1997 points

To summarize again:

Primary MEQ/TEQ/MC hunter: Bikestar
Secondary MEQ/TEQ/MC hunter: Centurion Gravstar
Tertiary MEQ/TEQ hunter: Vindicator, initial grav volley of one half of the Sternguard

Primary Tank hunter: Land Raider Phobos
Secondary Tank hunter: ML Devastators
Tertiary tank hunter: initial melta volley of one half of the Sternguard, as well as the 3 MLs of the Grav Cents

Primary Flyer hunter: ML Devastators
Secondary Flyer hunter: Telion's BS6 Icarus Lascannon

I think you have a solid HQ DeathStar. And I like your Centurion/LR unit. After that, I think you have too many toys and not enough troops. For anti-air, I think the best move is to take two Storm Talons with Skyhammer missiles. Then add more troops (bikers preferred).

I was thinking about replacing the ML Devastators (170) with a naked Stormraven (TL-MM, TL-LC) for 30 more points, but then I'd have to shave off those 30 points somewhere, probably from downgrading the 3 MLs on the Centurions to 3 Hurricane Bolters to boost my anti-GEQ firepower?

You have way too many high priced units and grav guns. Nids would eat this army for breakfast as would any horde style army. Also with grav-guns being the primary focus most armies will be able to outscore and outshoot you. The sternguard need to lose their combi-gravs because without any real presence and speed they are going to get focused and killed before they can take advantage of those grav weapons. Also if you use them the turn they come in they only become 2 shot, 9 inch range grav weapons not worth the points.

Points on your list

HQ: your captain is fine, but give him a grav gun and take off the relic blade and melta bombs. He is in a dedicated fast shooty unit that would do poorly in close combat. Even with the relic blade and melta bombs he is not even close to being able to being a force in close combat. Simply not enough damage output. 3 more graviton shots on a mobile unit will help you more in the long run.

The command squad is golden

Elites: 100 points and take all the combi weapons off your sternguard. They don't fit a real role and try to do too much for only 20 shots. I would rather take 2.5 space marine squads with boltguns and some special weapons then your 365 point sternguard. that is 15 more wounds and a lot more shots. If you really want to run sternguard that is fine I just siggest you keep them cheap. Especially because their special ammo is so awesome.

I like the scout squads but you need more troop choices.

Heavy Support: Take the land raider out. Take the centurions out. This is way to many points to put into for 1/4 of your total point cost. I understand the land raider is tough, but ultimately you are going to find that your land raider won't hold up especially if it is the only thing to shoot at. Also you can not put the centurions in a land raider phobos, they are considered "very bulky" and count as 5 units when determining transport capacity so the only land raider you could put them in is a land raider crusader.

Flakk missiles on devastators are not worth the point cost. I would rather save 20 points and snap fire lascannons at flyers (which are more likely to pen) with those ultramarine combat doctrines letting you reroll snapshots and 1's. Also run a few more marines in that squad. A few more wounds to soak up some shots will help those heavy weapon marines live longer to fire more shots.

The vindicator is only good when run in pairs or when it isn't the only thing that can be focused out. It's short 24' range gives it at least one turn to be shot at and chronus is awful on a tank that can't immediately take advantage of his awesome buffs. Cut costs here too.

I love the idea behind aegis defence lines and telion because he should be able to kill some stuff that you don't want around. Also through some more scout bodies in that squad. Because that gives you some more flexibility with that squad.

overall I think this list wants to castle versus getting in the opponent's face and needs a bit more long range troops to be able to shoot at your opponents from behind defence lines while scoring objectives

hyozanman wrote:
You have way too many high priced units and grav guns. Nids would eat this army for breakfast as would any horde style army. Also with grav-guns being the primary focus most armies will be able to outscore and outshoot you. The sternguard need to lose their combi-gravs because without any real presence and speed they are going to get focused and killed before they can take advantage of those grav weapons. Also if you use them the turn they come in they only become 2 shot, 9 inch range grav weapons not worth the points.

Well I obviously said this isnt a TAC list but an anti-MEQ list.

I think I'll swap the combi-gravs on the sternguard for combi-plasmas.

hyozanman wrote:
HQ: your captain is fine, but give him a grav gun and take off the relic blade and melta bombs. He is in a dedicated fast shooty unit that would do poorly in close combat. Even with the relic blade and melta bombs he is not even close to being able to being a force in close combat. Simply not enough damage output. 3 more graviton shots on a mobile unit will help you more in the long run.

The main reason I gave him that is because I know the first thing the enemy wants to do to shut this deathstar down is lock it in close combat. And because I'm not White Scars, I dont have hit and run, so an enemy fearless unit is all it takes to tie them down for the rest of the game (Apothecary also will only make it harder for them to lose combat and flee). Having some sort of power weapon among the squad is like an insurance policy, and because the stormshield removes my ability to get +1 attack for 2ccws, I thought the relic blade would do good, as it allows me to keep my high initiative and still wound most infantry on a 2+, just removing my chance of insta-killing T4 characters compared to a powerfist.

hyozanman wrote:
Heavy Support: Take the land raider out. Take the centurions out. This is way to many points to put into for 1/4 of your total point cost. I understand the land raider is tough, but ultimately you are going to find that your land raider won't hold up especially if it is the only thing to shoot at. Also you can not put the centurions in a land raider phobos, they are considered "very bulky" and count as 5 units when determining transport capacity so the only land raider you could put them in is a land raider crusader.

nope, they count as 3 models, so 3 can fit in a normal Land Raider.

hyozanman wrote:
The vindicator is only good when run in pairs or when it isn't the only thing that can be focused out. It's short 24' range gives it at least one turn to be shot at and chronus is awful on a tank that can't immediately take advantage of his awesome buffs. Cut costs here too.

Yeah youre probably right. I already have enough AP2 firepower as is. What is the first thing I should spend 180 points on?

I was thinking about replacing the Land Raider Phobos for a Stormraven (60 points saved); allying with Tau and taking a Commander with Iridium, Stim Injector, C&C node and MSSS and attaching him to the Gravcents to make them ignore cover and re-roll all shooting, and buying a FW squad as additional troops to hang around behind the ADL.

Then I was thinking about dropping the 170 point Devastators for a Riptide with Ion Accelerator and Stim Injector for even more killyness.

Locking down a grav command squad in close combat is hard to do and you are going to lose a lot of units trying to get to a bike squad. Most lists will just opt to put lots of shots into it so I was just suggesting you keep your bike squad cheaper.

You're right I didn't have the codex on me when I wrote this, cents count as 3 not 5. I love the stormraven idea, however it would't work with the tau commander because an allied HQ can't embark into dedicated transports that are no in it's FOC. Also i'm not sure I would like the idea of the centurions not coming in until turn 2-4 although this would give them the mobility they need to catch units as well as giving you a badass flyer.

You could turn the flakk dev squad into a stormtalon with skyhammer missiles for 45 less points, cut all the combi weapons on the sternguard for 100 points plus the 180 points from the vindicator gives you a lot of options. Cutting the stormraven and grabbing tau allies is a very solid plan.
That gives you 525 points to work with

I'm not sure how much the tau allies would be but, I figure 360 for the riptide and commander (right?) plus troops (100 for kroot?) leaves you with 65 points. Now you can use those points take out the ML's from the dev squad for 95 points and the relic blade plus melta bombs on the captain for 130 points and replace it with a chapter master! Stick the chapter master in the cent squad with the SE and get a 4 wound eternal warrior with a twin-linked ignoring cover orbital bombardment who can also break from the cent squad and tie up nasty assault units.

Seriously though those 65 points can be put back onto the sternguard squad for 3 combi weapons per combat squad +5 points wherever you want to spend.

Here's some feedback without changing up the units you really want to use:

Sternguard - The sargeant should have a more deadly weapon because he can get precision shots. If you plan on putting this many points in the squad to combat squad on the drop, I'd give the sargeant a combi-melta so he can possibly precision-shot out a T4 character. I don't like plasma b/c then he may kill himself, and the flamer has no possibility of a precision shot. I would drop the plasma to save points (and flamer) because their regular ammo is way better at killing most infantry, and more versatile.

Scouts - The land speeder squad is great, but give the sergeant melta bombs just in case. Another great load-out is all bolters, seeing as they can all fire out of the speeder. Either way, I like to give the sergeant melta bombs because on the charge, you may have blinded a MC with the Cerberus launcher and can pull off that melta bomb hit and live!

Scouts - Snipers: I'm not a fan of them. I understand what you are doing with Telion snipin things, but they can always 'look out sir' if it's a character, and most special weapons are going to be in transports... but if you do this, try the quad gun to get more shots, therefore more precision shot possibilities. For me, sniper scouts just get too expensive and their BS is too low to be reliable. You are better off taking a Tac squad in a rhino for the points that can actually reach out and claim an objective IMO.

Centurions - I would consider a Land Raider Redeemer instead. They are already going to kill whatever they target, so the LRR allows you an 18" bubble of AP3 protection, so the bikes out there can't grav or setup a charge on you without risking losing at least some of them to your LRR on your turn. Other than that, these guys lack an invuln save, so you want something close nearby to protect or join up with them to help protect from AP2.

Devastators - Flak missiles are too expensive. Think of it this way, you can take a naked 5-man Tactical Squad and put them on a Quad gun behind an Aegis for the same points, not to mention that the Quad gun then gets Interceptor, which the Devs won't have. You also don't have enough ablative wounds in the Dev squad... this basically means every marine you lose costs you almost 40 points... ouch. I'd forget about Telion on the Lascannon, and put a 5-man tac squad on a Quad gun instead. Also, you're really light on troops... so this being a scoring squad will help a bit.

Command Squad - The only thing I'd add here is a few melta bombs... if your bike unit can't take down a 2+ armor MC in one turn, and get charged, you will have no way of killing it. Normally, people put an AP2 weapon on the HQ, but if you don't and take melta bombs, give him some backup. Otherwise, this unit is good. (or you can just swap the relic blade out for a power axe - if you want the +1 attack still, or power fist - if you want the AP2).

Hope that helps! I'm happy to elaborate on anything if you want.

I like your HQ the way it is.

I like the LSS scouts and I have been wanting to try something similar.

The sternguard IMO have too many combis. I run mine as a can opener with 4 combi meltas in a combat squad and 2 HF in the other so they pop a transport then roast whats inside.

I also feel sniper scouts have too poor of a BS to be effective.

Chronus isn't helping a vindi at all put him in a non scatter tank or not at all.

I would drop the ML from the cents and free up more pts. The GC are going to crush any marines and the ML will be overkill. The HB can be effective against weaker armored units that thegrav will struggle with.

Maybe include an inquisitor or libby/Tiggy to help buff your Cents with Div or Bio. I would also add a plasma 5man Tac squad to boost your number of scoring units.