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2014/04/04 16:46:15
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Saw it last night and I am quite happy overall. Certainly is a major change in the status quo of the MCU.
Spoiler:
It wasn't a surprise that Pierce was the bad guy, but I admit I felt like an idiot for not seeing that HYDRA was behind all of it until after their little talk with Commodore 64 Zola. They really worked their way deep into SHIELD.
Falcon was handled well and a good addition to the team.
The fight scenes were well choreographed.
Winter Soldier doesn't pop up to much, even though his name is in the title, but when he does he really demands attention; his fights with Cap are just brutal.
I want Fury's SUV.
I'm not sure how I feel about Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being the results of HYDRA experiments, but ce la vie.
2014/04/04 19:22:51
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Black Widow should have died when Pierce activated the bio-tags
He activated them individually, not all at once. You can see him making separate presses for each person. He didn't zap her right off so he could take her hostage.
I know that, but that doesn't mean making them HYDRA experiments is my favorite alternative. Though I have heard rumors that "miracles", as when Strucker says it is "the age of miracles", will be the stand in term for mutant,but I hope not. I did like Stucker's line that SHIELD/HYDRA were "both sides of the same coin which no longer holds any currency".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/05 01:52:24
2014/04/05 02:17:03
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
hotsauceman1 wrote: To me, its weird, if they are Xmen, how can they use them? Unless they just use "The Twins" then entire time and never call them their respective names.
I have a feeling those two ended up in a loophole, as they are core members of both the Xmen and the Avengers. We should also remember that only Quicksilver is in both movies.
2014/04/05 03:49:51
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
hotsauceman1 wrote: At one point, beast was an avenger, everyone was an avenger at one point
The difference being that while lots have been an Avenger at one point or another, those two have been core members, and have been so for a long time; they are not just cameos due to popularity.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nkelsch wrote: How did Krypton get so bad and explode in a universe with galactic police like the Green Lanterns? Wasn't Krypton under the protection of one of the lanterns?
I think the Krytonians were (retconned) as being very isolationist and with their heads up their own asses near the end, which is why no one would listen when Jor-El tried to warn them. They assumed their everlasting position and superiority, which lead to their destruction as a civilization. They probably wouldn't allow the Laterns to interfere or come near them.
Overall I generally agree with your point. A lot of issues, especially in DC, come from trying to make characters of wildly varying types that were not designed to fit together, fit together. Superman is a sci-fi demigod and Batman is a pulp noir detective but they try to find ways to put them together because they are so popular.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/05 03:55:30
2014/04/05 04:06:16
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
hotsauceman1 wrote: I never understood, if Kryptonians can fly into space and not die, how come they didnt to THAT?
They can't do that on Krytpon. It is because Kal-El is on Earth with a yellow sun instead of a red one that he derives all his powers. On their home planet Kryptonians are the same as humans, only with better tech. Their culture and attitude led to them not really doing much with space travel, though most versions have them having done so in the distant past. That is why Jor-El had to create the ship that would take Clark to Earth, as they didn't have much in the way of space travel vehicles.
Even in the most recent Superman movie the ships they had that went to orbit were fairly limited, which is why initially when Zod et al are freed from the Phantom Zone in the ship in orbit they expect to die from starvation, as the satellite can't travel. It is by converting the phantom zone engine into a drive that they get it to travel. As they warped around they find more parts to make it more space worthy.
2014/04/05 18:24:50
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
I thought the congressional hearing with Black Widow was a little odd at the end. Even with secrets out in the open she doesn't strike me as someone that would show up to something like that. I think it was mainly to work in the bit where she said that they wouldn't arrest her because they needed them to protect them. I think the purpose of it was that it will be motivation for the government to create Ultron, as a defense system against supers and what not. Of course he is going to go Skynet on them. Just a thought.
2014/04/06 16:30:55
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Hawkeye wasn't in this because he was away on a mission in Europe tracking something (missing people perhaps?) and is most likely the one to find Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/07 02:45:09
2014/04/07 17:32:10
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
chaos0xomega wrote: 9. Going off of that, Nick Fury is a total hypocrite, he was fine with Project Insight right up to the point that it turned out to be a HYDRA plot, even though they had the same goals...
I think he was ok with it before he knew it was going to preemptively lay waste to millions of civilians; he hadn't grasped the full extent of what they were to do.
2014/04/08 17:41:49
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
It will be nice if at least one of the people on the team is a HYDRA member instead of copping out and having it be the only unblemished area of SHIELD. Not holding my breath though.
2014/04/08 23:27:22
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Ahtman wrote: It will be nice if at least one of the people on the team is a HYDRA member instead of copping out and having it be the only unblemished area of SHIELD. Not holding my breath though.
The episode description on my DVR specifically says that "they find that one of their number is a traitor"...and the name of the episode is "Turn, Turn, Turn...".
If they don't actually have a traitor with all that? They'll have been silly.
The other possibility, which to me will still fall under the writers being giant wusses, would be if it were someone completely tangential to the main group. It needs to be one of the core team members.
2014/04/09 09:34:25
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
This isn't 616, or Ultimate for that matter, none of this should happen; some things will be the same, some will be different, and some will be similar. I don't think it was written for Sharon and was always intended to use elements of her role from the comic for Natasha because the audience has a history with the character, like the character, and gives the character within the MCU more depth. Sharon Carter was there to set up possible future storylines, but wasn't really needed yet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/10 16:57:51
2014/04/10 19:06:09
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
gorgon wrote: But it's like a Spidey movie in which Peter spends the entire movie flirting and superheroing with Elektra, while Black Cat appears and gets a few unimportant scenes. Only Sharon is more important to Steve's story than Felicia ever was to Peter's. Still, Spidey fans would find that odd, right? Same thing here. It's a missed opportunity.
Forgoing that I don't find the comparison apt at all*, all of that is based on the 616 universe and ignores that the MCU is it's own beast, and complaining that something different is, well, different, is a bit spurious. I'm a fan of the comic as well but I have had no issues separating the comics from the films, and appreciate that it isn't a straight up transliteration. So far Marvel Studios have been doing a good balancing act of fidelity to the source material while forging their own path.
*Electro is a through and through villain, and since Spider-man has not been shown to be even bisexual the fact he is a man also is good indicator that he might not be interested. Black Widow is neither, and in the MCU isn't even as much of an unknown quantity as she is in the comics. Now if you compared Betty Brant and Black Cat that might have been a bit more accurate, or Gwen Stacy and Black Cat.
2014/04/10 19:14:46
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
gorgon wrote: Felicia and ELEKTRA are a solid enough analogy to Sharon and Natasha.
I think we already figured out where the problem with that was, and even though it is funnier as Electro, I don't really find it all that apt even when talking of the right characters.
gorgon wrote: Taking your line of thinking to an extreme
I don't think you understand my line of reasoning, or you wouldn't make such as asinine statement as you did. I talked about a balance of fidelity to the source while being a separate entity. What you described would not begin to fit that description.
gorgon wrote: So yes, in fact personally I *can't* separate the movie and source material
As long as you recognize that that is your problem, and not an actual problem with the MCU.
gorgon wrote: I feel it's an important point in the source material that should be reflected in a Cap film. *shrug*
Except the movies do reflect the source material, they just aren't exact translations of it. Just because you put a lot of focus on that relationship doesn't mean the idea of Captain America relies solely on it when being brought to the big screen, or any other medium for that matter. If you want an exact version just go reread the comic again.
This conflation of ones own idea of a character with all ideas of the character remind me of an article about communities that hate their own members. Comics are the first listed, and mainly because comic fans become so invested in their own personal connections to characters and stories they have trouble when others have a different view of those characters.
2014/04/12 01:56:21
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
I just realized why Thor would have left the staff on Earth, though not necessarily a good idea. Spoilers ahed from other Marvel films, so be warned.
At the end of Dark World they take the Aether to The Collector becuase 'it is to dangerous to have two infinity gems in one place". On Asgaard they already have the Tesseract (Space) so they don't want the Aether there as well. The gem in Loki's scepter is the Mind gem, so Thor left it on Earth with his friends at SHIELD aka HYDRA so that they wouldn't have that as well. If he had taken it at the end of Dark World they would have had three of the five gems on Asgaard, and that is probably not a good idea.
So far we have Infinity Gem of:
Mind ~ Loki's Staff
Space ~ Tesseract
Power ~ Aether
Introducing Dr. Strange allows them to introduce the Soul Gem in some form, I think. Didn't Adam Warlock have it? Been awhile since I read Infinity Gauntlet.
Apparently James Gunn (director of Guardians of the Galaxy) recently stated that it would tie into Avengers 3.
2014/04/14 00:22:14
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
