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2014/04/04 16:46:15
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Saw it last night and I am quite happy overall. Certainly is a major change in the status quo of the MCU.
Spoiler:
It wasn't a surprise that Pierce was the bad guy, but I admit I felt like an idiot for not seeing that HYDRA was behind all of it until after their little talk with Commodore 64 Zola. They really worked their way deep into SHIELD.
Falcon was handled well and a good addition to the team.
The fight scenes were well choreographed.
Winter Soldier doesn't pop up to much, even though his name is in the title, but when he does he really demands attention; his fights with Cap are just brutal.
I want Fury's SUV.
I'm not sure how I feel about Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being the results of HYDRA experiments, but ce la vie.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/04/04 17:16:57
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Okay, I couldn't get to see it today, due to travel issues-I'm going tomorrow night. If I enjoyed the first one (ducks to avoid thrown objects) and also enjoyed Avengers, will I still be happy? Also, please tell me they didn't change who Winter Soldier actually is-I'd be VERY upset by that, as there is seriously no reason to change that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apparently I'm not going tomorrow due to going with a couple of girls from work. Woe is me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/04 23:34:42
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
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2014/04/04 23:41:44
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Ahtman wrote: Stephen Strange? I wonder who that could be.
I saw the film with some freinds of mine who, while they enjoy the films, have basically no knowledge of the comics other than what they leech from me when I read comics next to them.
They were rather freaked out at this point in the film, because I may have started softly squealing in delight. (Strange is my favourite non-mutant character)
The only complaints I have is it was a bit long for the story clocking in at 2 hrs 20 mins.
And the scene on the boat when Cap is essentially letting the French guy hit him, the French guys is supposed to just be some mercenary not a super himself
That and Black Widow should have died when Pierce activated the bio-tags, which were obvious weapons since we already saw Fury easily override lack of security for Cap him self, considering the council weren't going to be moving around a lot once they got there.
But it was a good film and enjoyable
And the Pulp fiction reference was quite a nice nod
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
2014/04/05 01:06:03
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
To be honest, I don't think it will. It's probably just as likely as them getting him confused with The Flash.
It's probably outside most film punters immediate consciousness that Spiderman, X Men and The Avengers are all the same company. I mean, they'll probably know it if they think about it but I think to the folks who actually make the Marvel films their money, it won't even cross their mind.
It'll just be, "the fast guy".
2014/04/05 01:48:34
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Black Widow should have died when Pierce activated the bio-tags
He activated them individually, not all at once. You can see him making separate presses for each person. He didn't zap her right off so he could take her hostage.
I know that, but that doesn't mean making them HYDRA experiments is my favorite alternative. Though I have heard rumors that "miracles", as when Strucker says it is "the age of miracles", will be the stand in term for mutant,but I hope not. I did like Stucker's line that SHIELD/HYDRA were "both sides of the same coin which no longer holds any currency".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/05 01:52:24
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/04/05 02:00:09
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Great movie... but almost all of those blows done by Capt would have been death blows in real life. You would have been better taking a bullet from Black Widow and probably had a better chance of living.
Spoiler:
Also: I live in DC! If I ever become unemployed I can apparently get a job as a faceless minion for a giant secret government organization! I am honestly curious where on the Potomac river that base was. It feels like they killed thousands of faceless crazy secret agents. 40 or so guys shooting up fury 3 blocks from the white house? They pushed my disbelief being a Washingtonian
This should have been the secret ending clip:
Also... The mouse for once has to *coughcough* counterfeit stuff
But where did this serum originate from? Since we also know that, in order to create The Winter Soldier, H.Y.D.R.A. injected Bucky Barnes (played by Sebastian Stan) with a similar serum to the one that made Steve Rogers into Captain America, the serum injected into the twins could very well be a variation on that formula and be how Disney addresses that which cannot be named (mutants) in its films moving forward
So Nazi super serum research may have been an 'artificial x gene' serum as part of their research and Disney can basically have them be mutants as long as they don't call them mutants or directly reference the x gene concept. Were their powers innate? was Magento their father? Were they given the powers or just activated by Hydra? feth YOU, I'm Mickey Mouse bitch! Go buy frozen and watch my movies and stop asking questions! They have powers and pointless Nazi science doesn't need explanation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/05 02:08:01
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2014/04/05 02:03:27
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Compel wrote: To be honest, I don't think it will. It's probably just as likely as them getting him confused with The Flash.
It's probably outside most film punters immediate consciousness that Spiderman, X Men and The Avengers are all the same company. I mean, they'll probably know it if they think about it but I think to the folks who actually make the Marvel films their money, it won't even cross their mind.
I know that, but that doesn't mean making them HYDRA experiments is my favorite alternative. Though I have heard rumors that "miracles", as when Strucker says it is "the age of miracles", will be the stand in term for mutant,but I hope not. I did like Stucker's line that SHIELD/HYDRA were "both sides of the same coin which no longer holds any currency".
To me, its weird, if they are Xmen, how can they use them? Unless they just use "The Twins" then entire time and never call them their respective names.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/05 02:05:52
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2014/04/05 02:17:03
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
hotsauceman1 wrote: To me, its weird, if they are Xmen, how can they use them? Unless they just use "The Twins" then entire time and never call them their respective names.
I have a feeling those two ended up in a loophole, as they are core members of both the Xmen and the Avengers. We should also remember that only Quicksilver is in both movies.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/04/05 02:29:14
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
hotsauceman1 wrote: At one point, beast was an avenger, everyone was an avenger at one point
As long as the mouse doesn't mention XMEN or the term Mutants and simply fails to actually explain the origins of powers... they can simply be the characters they are with a "you know what they are... don't ask questions" position.
I am rather glad, because the Xmen universe is pretty crappy when smooshed in with the marvel universe... Spiderman is a hero and Mr Fantastic lives in a deeeeeeeeeluxe department in the Skyyyyyyie yahie yahie, because they got powers which mutated them from SCIENCE but the XMEN are discriminated against and hunted?
One of the really great things about Captain America 2 was the story actually holds up to the 'expanded universe' test. We have a real danger which would have probably warranted total mobilization of the world's heroes but due to the current story, Tony Stark is a powerless retired civilian, Thor is 'gone' and The Hulk is still lost in quiet madness. In a world with Xmen or other Marvel stuff, the Major evil scheme could have been foiled by Magneto in literally a second. I feel lots of 'expanded universes' fail in this regard because if the Joker really was going to kill everyone in Gotham city, there is no valid reason to not just call Superman to have supes throw the Joker into the sun. Hell... How did Krypton get so bad and explode in a universe with galactic police like the Green Lanterns? Wasn't Krypton under the protection of one of the lanterns? No one bothered to intervene and prevent genocide? Ring all the kryptonians to Mongo, evacuate the planet and destroy braniac?
Expanded universes ruin series and require you to compartmentalize stories to unrealistic ends or turn your brain off. If anything, the Movie marvel universe has been VERY GOOD about not requiring that. If 'xmen mutants' never appear in the Disney Marvelverse, I will be damn happy. I think a lot of people who were saying "Who dat?' after the credits will agree.
The only casualty of that is Wolverine/Capt crossovers... which would be amazing, especially since I thought the last wolverine movie was great.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
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2014/04/05 03:49:51
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
hotsauceman1 wrote: At one point, beast was an avenger, everyone was an avenger at one point
The difference being that while lots have been an Avenger at one point or another, those two have been core members, and have been so for a long time; they are not just cameos due to popularity.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nkelsch wrote: How did Krypton get so bad and explode in a universe with galactic police like the Green Lanterns? Wasn't Krypton under the protection of one of the lanterns?
I think the Krytonians were (retconned) as being very isolationist and with their heads up their own asses near the end, which is why no one would listen when Jor-El tried to warn them. They assumed their everlasting position and superiority, which lead to their destruction as a civilization. They probably wouldn't allow the Laterns to interfere or come near them.
Overall I generally agree with your point. A lot of issues, especially in DC, come from trying to make characters of wildly varying types that were not designed to fit together, fit together. Superman is a sci-fi demigod and Batman is a pulp noir detective but they try to find ways to put them together because they are so popular.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/05 03:55:30
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/04/05 03:59:08
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
hotsauceman1 wrote: At one point, beast was an avenger, everyone was an avenger at one point
One of the really great things about Captain America 2 was the story actually holds up to the 'expanded universe' test. We have a real danger which would have probably warranted total mobilization of the world's heroes but due to the current story, Tony Stark is a powerless retired civilian, Thor is 'gone' and The Hulk is still lost in quiet madness. In a world with Xmen or other Marvel stuff, the Major evil scheme could have been foiled by Magneto in literally a second. I feel lots of 'expanded universes' fail in this regard because if the Joker really was going to kill everyone in Gotham city, there is no valid reason to not just call Superman to have supes throw the Joker into the sun. Hell... How did Krypton get so bad and explode in a universe with galactic police like the Green Lanterns? Wasn't Krypton under the protection of one of the lanterns? No one bothered to intervene and prevent genocide? Ring all the kryptonians to Mongo, evacuate the planet and destroy braniac?
Here is the thing, Even if magneto could have stopped it, it happened so fast. This happened over the course of two days. With no one except Captain knowing. by the time the finale came up, they had a 12 min window for them to act, magneto could have not made it there.
Also, my friend caught up one this
Spoiler:
When the computers where targeting, He saw the name "P. Parker" being targeted
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/05 04:02:17
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2014/04/05 04:06:16
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
hotsauceman1 wrote: I never understood, if Kryptonians can fly into space and not die, how come they didnt to THAT?
They can't do that on Krytpon. It is because Kal-El is on Earth with a yellow sun instead of a red one that he derives all his powers. On their home planet Kryptonians are the same as humans, only with better tech. Their culture and attitude led to them not really doing much with space travel, though most versions have them having done so in the distant past. That is why Jor-El had to create the ship that would take Clark to Earth, as they didn't have much in the way of space travel vehicles.
Even in the most recent Superman movie the ships they had that went to orbit were fairly limited, which is why initially when Zod et al are freed from the Phantom Zone in the ship in orbit they expect to die from starvation, as the satellite can't travel. It is by converting the phantom zone engine into a drive that they get it to travel. As they warped around they find more parts to make it more space worthy.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/04/05 04:11:03
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Eh, the way I'm going to deal with the whole quicksilver thing is that the Disney Quicksilver and Fox Quicksilver are from different universes in the Marvel Multiverse.
It's probably the simplest way 'in universe'
2014/04/05 04:17:55
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Here is the thing, Even if magneto could have stopped it, it happened so fast. This happened over the course of two days. With no one except Captain knowing. by the time the finale came up, they had a 12 min window for them to act, magneto could have not made it there.
Also, my friend caught up one this
Spoiler:
When the computers where targeting, He saw the name "P. Parker" being targeted
Yeah, I saw that too...
Spoiler:
But it boils down, that let's say Capt failed, and the flying death macguffins headshotted everyone on the east coast... In an Avengersverse, that is a victory! In an expanded marvel universe, where they know of all the various superpowered beings across the planet, it would be a pointless exercise... While it may have had initial success, it then would unify the rest of the world against Hydra, and on a planet with literally hundreds of thousands of mutants, a decent number would be simply immune to the airships, it would inspire chaos and a global mess of uninteresting stories far more than an oppressive regime controlling the population.
Yeah, Magneto wouldn't have prevented it, but there is a high chance he wouldn't have been killed by the initial attack and he could singlehandedly wreck that entire plan. Dozens of other mutants would also have abilities and immunities as well and we would probably see something opposite of the new XMEN movie where Mutants are the saviors of humanity against the horrible Nazis. It would be the plot if Quentin Tarantino directed an xmen movie!
If those types of complications existed on the planet, this plan would have never happened. Hence why the movie is awesome for a contained mutant-free marvel universe... How they plan to approach that considering the new two baddies are traditionally mutants. (and offspring of a notorious mutant, their mother was impregnated with twins in Auschwitz, so it is convenient if Nazis were experimenting on or had cryo frozen specimens from WW2)
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2014/04/05 04:19:11
Subject: Re:Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
It bored me to pieces for the most part. I almost nodded off during the final set piece. I can't call it a bad movie. it just wasn't my cup of tea for a reason I can't quite pinpoint.
I liked the interactions between Cap and Falcon though and would totally watch a buddy-hero movie with those two.
2014/04/05 04:22:30
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
Minnesota, land of 10,000 Lakes and 10,000,000,000 Mosquitos
hotsauceman1 wrote: Anyone else feel like, while the first one was a war movie, this was a secret agent movie?
Yep, if you look into what Marvel's planning to do with the MCU, they're trying to make their movies more of genre movies with superheroes in them, rather than superhero movies that follow a formula. The First Avenger was a war movie, The Winter Soldier was more of a political thriller/spy movie, Guardians of the Galaxy is set to be a space opera, and Ant-Man is supposedly going to be a heist film.
Marvel is pushing a lot of boundaries with the MCU, not just in the idea of having a vast, interconnected movie universe for a group of superheroes.
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Kal'reia Sept Tau - Farsight Sympathizers Da Great Looted Waaagh! The Court of the Wolf Lords
So, I guess it's more a political action/thriller movie along the lines of Bourne Identity, Manchurian Candidate (the one with Denzel), or The Art of War (with Snipes).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/05 09:02:31
2014/04/05 10:31:49
Subject: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Discussion *SPOILERS*
djones520 wrote: I enjoyed it. I'm curious about the end credit scene. Where they saying Loki's staff was another one of the cosmic cube things?
I got the impression that they meant that the cosmic cube and Loki's scepter were both weapons that they could utilise rather than they were functionally identical. They also heavily suggest that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch will be used as weapons, probably via the mind control effect of Loki's scepter.
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