Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience)

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**twinner**

I am sorry to say this but you can consider your models and your money gone.

I live in Ontario and when heard of this company I hopped right on it. Originally he said my commission of ONE tank would take two weeks, which I considered very reasonable. I sent him the tank and the money, this was in Janurary. He has since stopped contacting me, and will not respond to my calls or texts.

Now that is just one tank, my brother on the other hand sent him a fairly large space wolf detachment to have painted up. Not only that but over $600 worth of High Elves as payment. My brother also put in over 40 hours of work for Sean developing all those fancy spreadsheets he has, which my brother was promised payment for. Last month my brother was getting frustrated and asked he return the models, both the space wolves and the high elves. He said he would, when we got the package it was only the space wolves, might I add that only had the base coat done, when Sean said he was sending finished models back. When my brother asked about the high elves he said they were sold, and he wouldn't give a refund. In his words he didn't offer refunds for trade-ins.

This was very unprofessional and I have all his contact information for any who wants it. Below I will post a very lengthy facebook message feed between him and I. Please note it is long, sorry about the spelling errors. let me know if I missed any personal information. My brother and I have since gave up and cut out losses, but be warned.

Spoiler:

**twinner**

mbutler132000 wrote:
I figured that is what this post would do. The moderator commented so the guys who run Dakka must know about this person. Twinner did Sean ever try to tell you his Internet was down. That is the excuse I have been getting for the past two months. I don't want to say it's untrue, but it is a little hard to believe a businesses Internet could go down for two months and never be fixed. As a small business owner I can say that if this happened to me I would be intent on getting this fixed before this much time passed.

According to my facebook messages, he can't afford real internet so uses his phone for internet.

**twinner**

Sean Duncan

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I received this message this morning from Sean,

"my cell is screwed up I can't contact anyone easily"

**twinner**

Darth Bob wrote:
His constant excuses for not giving a legitimate answer to your simple questions is indicative that he has no intention of resolving the issue. Has anyone contacted his sponsors?

I just sent an e-mail to all three.

**twinner**

I have been messaging one of his sponsors. He has removed the list of sponsors from his sites. Here is the last message I received from the sponsor I have been messaging. This is the FLGS he frequents.

He mentioned his internet is down and asked me how to respond. I offered to have him come to the store and use the internet here and to do whatever the customer wants to MAKE IT RIGHT! Awaiting his response. While awaiting his response another of his customers' called me with a similar issue. I asked him to remove us from his website, he has done this but has yet to respond. I'll let you know should he do so. Best regards; David

**twinner**

I have finally decided it is a lost cause. Next time I am in Toronto (3 hours away), I might try and meet him face to face, nothing threatening, hopefully I could inspire him to release the models back to their owners. The sad part is, is he had the skill to be a successful business. He had a beautiful websites, he had everything going for him. What a waste.

**twinner**

I hope I get my razorback back, and you get your army back. Hopefully he just has horrible customer service compared to being a thief.

**twinner**

For myself since it was only $40 and a razorback I lost it would not be worth going to the pd: but I will suggest it to my brother

**twinner**

Any updates?

**twinner**

Well he must have internet, he has just blocked me from replying to any of his posts or messaging him, all i asked is if I would ever see my model. Which leads me to two conclusions, #1 I am not getting my model back, and #2 he is still wanting to get new "customers" so be careful, it would also be awesome if some people could comment on some of the photos,and start putting pressure.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/Battlegroundswargaming?ref=stream

**twinner**

He has just posted this on his facebook page.

"Hey everyone. Thanks for sticking with us during the inyernet issues we have been having. Our normal website address and email address issue has been addressed and fixed. So please feel free to contact us anytime."

It seems he has yet to give up, he is either the dumbest scam artist or the worst business owner ever, either way I want my models back!

**twinner**

this is my recent text conversation I had with him. I texted him from a number he didn't know was mine, which I why I probably got the initial response,

Me: Hey! I saw your back up. Are you still accepting commissions.

Sean: Hello. How are you?

Website domain was renewing had a few problems but it's back now.

I am accepting new commissions. But I will tell you we are having a slight delay as we are a bit behind. But I do know I'm one of the cheapest out there so if you were looking at getting yourself a commission time slot was can talk further.

Me: Can I be honest?

This is Kevin from Sudbury. I just really want my stuff back man.

I don't understand how someone can continually lie to people and keep ripping people off. Aren't you afraid there is going to be repercussion? Maybe you aren't trying to rip people off, but man you have to fix this situation soon.

Sean: Yeah I know and stuff is crazy here, I'm slowly bringing things back. And no there are no repercussions because I never told one person they couldn't have their stuff. Meaning there is no theft.

We don't have a contractual due date.

I've never said, "Hey I'm keeping your stuff." Because I'm not keeping it.

And I fully just told you we were behind thinking you were a new customer. So I mean right there shows that I'm telling people and only taking new projects after they know about the delay.

Honestly all this ranting online has made it so much harder actually.

I had to get a day job because of all the slander.

I know you guys want your stuff back but making it harder isn't helping.

Like I told the officer that contacted me. I can claim bankruptcy right now and call this a learn learn XP. But I would never do that. I'm sticking it out and getting my customers what they paid for.

Me: Just send me my tank back please.

Can you do that?

Sean: Like I even have one kid saying I stole his stuff but doesn't want to show up to any of our meeting times.

I can do what ever you want.

Me: Send me my tank back tomorrow?

Sean: Just know I don't want to keep your tank.

Me: I have already paid return shipping.

Sean: Yeah I know.

Me: Can you send it to me tomorrow?

Sean: Yep, I will contact you tomorrow with a shipping number.

Me: If you return my stuff and I confirm it to people online it will help you a lot.

Sean: That would be nice, again sorry for the inconvenience man I really am. My life just got really f****d up.

I don't even have power at home, my landlord isn't paying his bill and ditched the house.

It's so f****d up,

Me: Just send me my model back tomorrow as promised and it will help you a lot.

Sean: Alright buddy I'll keep ya posted.

**twinner**

any updates on this?

**twinner**

Seeing as how I have asked for my models back, whether or not he has finished them, and still have yet to receive anything, let alone hear from him. I feel this is a lie.

**twinner**

Mr. Burning wrote:
I just read through this thread and As bad as Sean at Battlegrounds Wargaming is (for whatever reason) Those individuals who have lost out should really be moving on.

If Sean was a legit business type he would have contacted those affected in the first instance and not waited for it to get this far.

An offer would have been made and or shipping numbers would have been provided again - before it got this far.

Looking at the transcripts it seems obvious that, with another job, there is no possible way to commission paint minis, at low low prices, with the amount of limited hours in a day.

Just pass on details of convos and messages to the officer mention ITT. suck it up and learn a life lesson.

Just don't play message ping-pong and stretch out the inevitable.

Stand up guy you are.

**twinner**

We have results, this goes to show you as a community we can get results and stop people like this.

There will be charges being placed, one account for each person affected.

That is about 10 accounts, this guy will never do this again. Let this be a warning to anyone reading this who thinks they can get away with stealing from the community, your actions do not go unpunished. Are toys, worth going to jail for?

**twinner**

I have since be in contact with him, I just asked for my stuff back. Painted or not I just want the model, it is only a FW Razorback but still. I was talking with him two weeks ago and the first deadline he said he would repaint it by was missed. I talked with him again on Friday asking he just mail it back in whatever condition it is in, we agreed on today. I have not heard from him yet, I will let you know.

**twinner**

mbutler132000 wrote:
Twinner, did you ever hear anything back on your model? Did he send it yesterday?

Did not hear anything from hear from him.

**twinner**

He got back to me and said he was behind yet again. Even thought I asked him not to paint it and just ship it out, he seemingly ignored that.

**twinner**

Last I heard he had updates pictures for me, even though I had just requested them back without him painting them. Will let you know if I hear anything. Bulter, please send me a list of the models he has of yours please.

**twinner**

He posted an ad on my local online market place, he obviously thinks he has time to take on huge commissions, yet he can't send me my single tank back...

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hobbies-craft/city-of-toronto/free-warhammer-battleforce-w-1000-commission/1066725177?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

**twinner**

Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
Giving everyone photos of progress on their work at once isn't possible. Painting takes time and I only have two hands.

I don't even want my stuff painted, I asked two weeks ago you just ship it back n its current state. Why has this not been done yet? What is your reasoning for this? Seeing as how I live in the same province and it is one model, it should have been done the next day. in fact you told me twice you were shipping it out the next day. Please explain this to myself and everyone in the thread.

**twinner**

Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
Curran, your not understanding. This issue is out dating the move. I am talking customers here that know what I'm talking about. I've been asked for pics of uncompleted models as well as progress pics. Two very different things. Painting takes time which is why everyone can't have progress pics at once and sure I can take pics of uncompleted stuff for the people that asked as it become available as it is packed still.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kevin the last email I got from you two weeks ago says nothing about shipping it back you. Asked for photos of progress. Meaning to me that you wanted it painted.

Well here you have it being said publicly, just send me my tank back, in its current state, don't paint it or do anything to it. Send it to me today, you have my address in your e-mail.

Also for reference here is what he is sending to me via e-mail.

Spoiler:

If you want to start making things right, send me my tank back, and get these fine people what you promised them over a year ago.

Also I would like to point out, my brother spent hours building your spreadsheets and on top of that sent you $1000 for of High Elf miniatures, when you didn't complete the work, he asked for the high elf models back, which you couldn't provide him. You said since they were traded in you sold them, and when you were unable to complete the commission he got nothing back for them. Care to explain this to the general population, and how you plan on fixing that situation? Also having him send you miniatures to paint is out of the question, how can you expect us to trust you with sending more when you can't complete what you have currently. We have a Youtube channel based in Northern Ontario with nearly 1000 subscribers, and have great relationships with MWG and SkaredCast, if you don't start actually showing that you are fixing this situation, I will reach out to them and we will have videos going up on all 3 channels about the caution of using your services. Don't get me wrong, I would love for you to fix this all, and I would be happy to stop this pursuit, but until you actually show you are putting effort into this, this will not happen.

**twinner**

Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
You have heard us reach out to you publically. Despite the hundreds of email we have between each other. Any further business between clients can be spoken to on an email basis.

Will you be sending my tank back today?

**twinner**

Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
Sure Kevin that is no problem. Your last email just said otherwise. As I stated in that email, I'm a business we get Warhammer for cheaper then most. This hassle isn't worth what Warhammers physical dollar value is to us. The accusations of theft and fraud are just crazy as I've contacted everyone long after everyone stopped contacting me. I was in the clear yet I messaged you guys back to fix all of this. I clearly have everything here and I'm clearly not stealing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The models aren't worth any great physical value to me. CURRAN you don't even know what is going on here at all.

I'll expect a tracking number by end of day, will keep the people in the thread updated.

**twinner**

Talizvar wrote:
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
No one here said the customers weren't appreciated. I said the models weren't worth anything to me therefore stealing them and theb selling them to make money would not be worth thia trouble. Your putting words in my mouth.
Unfortunate choice of wording but I understand the intent.

Putting I hope better words in your mouth: "Selling stolen property would create far more difficulty than it would ever be worth."

Unfortunately the allegation of an army of WHFB elves were put in your care and not returned with that person's other property still is unaddressed.
What happened to it?
Careful clear wording forgives much..

To clarify my post, my brother had sent him a High Elf army as payment to get some space wolves painted. In the end the wolves were not painted, and he was told he couldn't get the elves back as they had been sold, nor was the money they were sold for returned to my brother.

**twinner**

Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
See thats the thing know one really knows what's going on. The space wolves were sent back months ago. He has already received everything except the tank he wanted me to finish. As for the high elves that were sold. Twinner sold them to our store for painting credit which he still has. If you sell something to a store that is in turn going to resell it, you can't change your mind. There are no refunds on that kind if thing. How could you possible go to a pawn store give them something then get mad months later when you say you want your stuff back and they say they sold it. As for the work load, I have no issue painting huge commissions. I have completed hundreds of commissions much larger then these on time many times. We just have issues with these few guys. I've painted over 100 miniatures just this week. Problem is that everyone keeps talking, no one knows the truth. Everyone has a half story and the ones that think they have the story don't even know what I still have or don't

He is right the space wolves were returned, unpainted. He never mentioned the high elves were sold to the store. Irvin traded them in to have the wolves painted, when they were not painted he expected them back. He was told they had been sold, so he had asked for the money that they were sold for. Instead of giving the money Sean insisted that he would only get painting credit, and that he would not get the money back. The problem is that would require us to trust him with models again, which would not happen. So in the end he basically stole high elves, offering a credit instead which would never be used. Irvin has over $1000 of credit with this guy from the work of the spreadsheets and the high elves. This is credit that will never get used, he has money from elves that he never did the work for, refused to give the elves or the money that they were sold for back to my brother. Your analogy with the pawn shop is flawed, as when you pawn something you are given funds in return (or in the case a paint job), if the pawn shop failed to provide these funds they would give the item back, they would not sell it and offer you another item which they themselves could not provide. If you find one person on this forum to agree with you I would happily think that this is common business practice. But as a matter of fact it isn't.

Furthermore, lets try a experiment, because frankly I think you are lying and do not have my models nor anyone else's left. I see you have a phone with internet access, thanks to the photo of my message you posted. Please by the end of the day take a picture of my tank, and bulter's high elves and post it on this forum. In the picture please include a piece of paper with today's date written on it and your dakka handle. This is a task which I could do in mere seconds, so by the end of the day should be more then sufficient time. Please do not say they are packed, if they are, unpack them, as your reputation is on the line. There is literally no excuse you could give for not having the pictures up by the end of the day. Please make sure the pictures are somewhat clear aswell.

**twinner**

Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
What are you talking about. I've said many times that it's my fault and we are behind. I also said I feel terrible about what's happened and I just want to fix this for everyone And that I want nothing more then to see they back on these gentlemens game tables

Please respond to my request.

**twinner**

Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
There's your tank kevin

Wonderful, now show the high elves please

**twinner**

Steelmage99 wrote:
twinner wrote:
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
There's your tank kevin

Wonderful, now show the high elves please

Twinner, can you tell if any work has been done on the Razorback? Is it any different paint-wise?

It's the same as I sent it, even after being told three or four times there was work done and progress pictures were incoming.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
Mbutlers high elves

I clear picture mate, showing the models. I can't even tell if those are elves, let alone butlers elves.