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I thought about this while at work today and wanted to get dakka's feedback on it.

I run a shooty CSM 1K sons army and would like to add a mean CC unit to get in my enemy's face. I was thinking of adding a herald of Khorne with 20 bloodletters and giving the herald the grimoire of true names, effectively giving the unit of bloodletters a 3++ save. Do you think that this would work?

One of the biggest issues with bloodletters is the fact that they are slow. They only move 6 inches per turn and have no access to transports. They can deep strike, but you are looking at a minimum of a turn 3 charge.

I really want bloodletters to work (I have 40 of them), but I haven't found a way to make it happen.

If you're looking to do that (and I wouldn't call it a death star by any means), then I'd recommend taking a look at slaanesh instead.

For a lot of $ and a few points over the bloodletters, you could go with 20 seekers of slaanesh to pick up a unit that is amazingly fast and hits very hard. The herald can take a steed of slaanesh, so you don't lose anything from the herald (except trading AP3 for rending with more attacks), and the slaanesh locus bonuses are better (in my opinion) than the khorne locus bonuses. Of couse, this requires you to spend an additional 90 points for the mandatory troops choice (again, slaanesh are good because of how fast they are).

For not as much $ (I think), and a bit less speed, you could go with daemonettes of slaanesh, but this costs you 6" of move per turn, 3" of run move, S3 HoW (enh), and one attack per model.... For a $-based decision, that might make sense, for a points-based decision, less so.

 sub-zero wrote:
I thought about this while at work today and wanted to get dakka's feedback on it.

I run a shooty CSM 1K sons army and would like to add a mean CC unit to get in my enemy's face. I was thinking of adding a herald of Khorne with 20 bloodletters and giving the herald the grimoire of true names, effectively giving the unit of bloodletters a 3++ save. Do you think that this would work?

Easily foiled by something as simple as TEQ saves or having to assault through cover.

Also, that's ultimately little more than T3 models with a 3+ save that can't be negated.

It's not as killy as you'd think.

Go Hounds all the way if you want Khorne. You'll have to pay the troops tax, but a unit of around 15 Hounds + Herald on Juggernaut is murder. It's durable (especially with the grimoire) FAST (scout, beasts, ignore difficult terrain), and most definitely killy. It's better if you can find somewhere else to put the grimoire so that the Herald can take an axe of khorne (ap 2 instant death on 6's).

Possible Allied Daemons:

HQ
Herald of Khorne: 130
Juggernaut, Lesser Reward (axe), Locus of Fury (+2A on the charge for his unit)
Herald of Tzeentch: 145
ML3, Locus of Conjuration (+1S psychic shooting for his unit), Grimoire

Troops:
20 Horrors

Fast:
16 Hounds

Total: 711

Kinda steep, but that gives you a really fast, nasty assault threat that will keep pressure off the rest of your army, plus a respectable amount of S6 shooting from the horrors and herald. (possible 7d6 shots). Horrors will use the grimoire on themselves once the hounds get where they need to go.

While your list is nice, it's illegal for allies. You're limited to one HQ, and heralds only can go 4:1 if they are in the primary detachment. In an allied detachment, one herald consumes your HQ slot.

Bloodletters work as a meatshield for a herald, preferably on jugger and with axe as astro-nomicon advised.
If you upgrade to get a unit leader as well and give him a axe or etherblade, you have lots of ap 2 attacks flying at your enemy at high initiative.

This trick with herald+unit champion both with etherblades to get ap2 at full I work well with deamonettes as well though.

In short, bloodletters are in no way a good cc unit. The best way to use them is holding a quad gun and hoping some stray marine is coming their way.

Voluntold wrote:
While your list is nice, it's illegal for allies. You're limited to one HQ, and heralds only can go 4:1 if they are in the primary detachment. In an allied detachment, one herald consumes your HQ slot.

Ah didn't have my 'dex on me when I was posting. That thought nagged at me but I couldn't remember for sure. Thanks for the clarification.

Bloodletters are worse than daemonettes in almost every way. They are slightly better against MEQ almost to a fault.

Bloodletters are trash. Coolest looking daemon troops IMO, but trash.

Definitely would recommend a Herald w/ AP2 Axe, riding a Jugger in a fat unit of Hounds. Alternatively a Bloodthirster is very cool and unlocks the Daemon Prince of Khorne - though that guy is possibly the worst of the Daemon princes.

Troops wise I'd roll Daemonettes for fast, Horrors for shooty, Plagues for Tough, or Nurgling for cheap non-scoring annoyance. Would only ever run Bloodletters for theme, they really are terribly balanced by comparison

Sorry to jam in on your thread but I too want some Daemon allies for my CSM army... but I'm running a super fluffy 1000 point Khorne army

1x Chaos Lord w/ some goodies or Kharne, it depends...

1x Winged Daemon Prince w/ Blind Axe

2x Units of Zerkers w/ power fist Champions

1x Unit of Chosen (the DV guys...)

This list looks really lame and yes, you can and will walk all over it, but I'm cheap/poor and its what I got so... You would be surprised what this list can do if the DP stays alive long enough to wreak havoc...

But I wanted to add in MOAR melee! With Daemons!

What would work to that end? I was thinking keeping it Khorne themed though too...

Ok, I'll say it one more time then. . 15-20 Flesh Hounds with a Khorne Herald, holmes.

What's more Khornate than a pack of ravenous, blood thirsty daemon dogs led by an homicidal axe weilding maniac riding atop a daemon bull?

Not only that, but it will work well with your army by soaking up lots of fire. If even just the khorne herald by himself makes it into combat, he will wreck something's face.

darkcloak wrote:
Sorry to jam in on your thread but I too want some Daemon allies for my CSM army... but I'm running a super fluffy 1000 point Khorne army

1x Chaos Lord w/ some goodies or Kharne, it depends...

1x Winged Daemon Prince w/ Blind Axe

2x Units of Zerkers w/ power fist Champions

1x Unit of Chosen (the DV guys...)

This list looks really lame and yes, you can and will walk all over it, but I'm cheap/poor and its what I got so... You would be surprised what this list can do if the DP stays alive long enough to wreak havoc...

But I wanted to add in MOAR melee! With Daemons!

What would work to that end? I was thinking keeping it Khorne themed though too...

I'm soooo glad that someone else, besides me, is running a mono-god list. I thought that I was the only one.

I love Khorne (see sig.) but my spidey-sense told me to build a shooty army for 6th ed. so I went with the 1K sons.

Now, seeing that hounds are a fast attack option and not a troop option, I don't see how I can use them as allies in my army....