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Bikes are dirt cheap and in every way better than jump packs, while costing marginally more. Any slot you can run Jump packs, you can run bikes that are better.
I am unsure of what people think are ways of fixing the situation to make jump packs worth their points and competitive with bikes.

Any ideas?

what are you proposing?

I'm proposing an idea/discussion.

My idea would:
A: allow them in the movement phase to enter ongoing reserve. (helps shooty)
B: allow them to deep-strike instead of moving. (helps shooty)
C. Or make all shots on them have to be taken as snap shots (increase the points cost a little). (helps assault or shooty).
D. If they use their jet packs to charge the opponent cannot over watch against them (helps assault)

These are just some ideas, because currently they suck so bad i only take them in fluffy lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another option would be to make the shots at them fire at -4 balistic skill. If they fall at 0(-1)/below use the reverse of the chart. a -4 needs a 6 and than a 5+)
( a -1 needs a 6 than a 2+, -2=6+/3+, -3=6+/4+)

 Slayer222 wrote:
Bikes are dirt cheap and in every way better than jump packs, while costing marginally more. Any slot you can run Jump packs, you can run bikes that are better.
I am unsure of what people think are ways of fixing the situation to make jump packs worth their points and competitive with bikes.

Any ideas?

Well Jump packs can fly on top of ruins and terrain such as buildings etc, they also get fleet in the assault hase if they moved 6' in the movement. I am pretty sure jump packs are cheaper though.

They also give hammer of wrath if you use the JP on the charge instead of movement phase. Honestly, I think they're fine.

Jumppacks are fine but not when you compare them to bikes. I'd say just increase points on bikes a bit.

Right now, it's easy to see on csm bikers - raptors. Bikes cost 20 pts. Raptors cost 17. Now imagine you give MoN to raptors, they start costing 20 pts also. So that both bikers and raptors cost the exact same number of points but bikers get jink, reliable hammer of wraith, relentless, tl bolters and ability to flatout 12', they also ignore terrain for the purpose of moving and charging, need to take dt tests though, but raptors have to make dt also if they use jumppacks and start or finish the move in dif terrain. What do raptors get over bikes? Deepstrike and possibility to get fleet. It's really unlikely that you get fleet, so basically you're left with deepstrike. Which is not bad actually, but raptors are still outperformed by termies as deepstrikers.

I think this belongs in the 40k general discussion tab though. Agreed that bikes are better though.

 koooaei wrote:

Right now, it's easy to see on csm bikers - raptors. Bikes cost 20 pts. Raptors cost 17. Now imagine you give MoN to raptors, they start costing 20 pts also. So that both bikers and raptors cost the exact same number of points but bikers get jink, reliable hammer of wraith, relentless, tl bolters and ability to flatout 12', they also ignore terrain for the purpose of moving and charging, need to take dt tests though, but raptors have to make dt also if they use jumppacks and start or finish the move in dif terrain. What do raptors get over bikes? Deepstrike and possibility to get fleet. It's really unlikely that you get fleet, so basically you're left with deepstrike. Which is not bad actually, but raptors are still outperformed by termies as deepstrikers.

Even worse, try giving them both VotLW. Raptors pay 2 ppm, bikes pay 1. The CSM codex is just bad. Very little internal balance.




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 Slayer222 wrote:
Bikes are dirt cheap and in every way better than jump packs, while costing marginally more. Any slot you can run Jump packs, you can run bikes that are better.
I am unsure of what people think are ways of fixing the situation to make jump packs worth their points and competitive with bikes.

Any ideas?

Jump pack troops get better when you increase the terrain level of your battlefield. Being able to flat ignore terrain, move up and down levels of buildings, and hide easily starts to make up for the difference.

 koooaei wrote:
Jumppacks are fine but not when you compare them to bikes. I'd say just increase points on bikes a bit.

Bikes might need a slight increase, really most jump infantry, especilly the assault infantry, needs to be cheaper. In the land of 14 point SM, Jump pack marines should be 15-16.

Being able to jump over terrain is pretty big. In addition raptors are easier to hide a clump of behind a LoS blocker, couple that with their ablility to jump over said building and you can really create a problem area for your enemy. Bikes don't do this nearly as well but apparently many people here play with one piece of terrain these days O_o

Jump packs can also jump over enemy units, but yeah with bikes giving +1T and jink that's a very situational advantage compared to massive all the time advantages. Honestly bikes are just too cheap for all they give, especially if you can take them as troops.

I think bikes are finally okay. Jump packs are too expensive. Going from a bolter to bolt pistol is a huge downgrade.

bikes cannot climb onto higher floors in ruins, so jet packs take the cake there.
This has screwed me many time in the past when my chapter master biker just sits on the found looking at the enemy shooting him from a floor above...

Bikes are perfectly fine for their points. It's just jump packs that are the problem.

Jump pack Marines specifically, as the actual rules for JPI are good; 12'' move, re-rolls to charge, hammer of wrath attacks and the ability to move over terrain and models is great. jump pack marines are just crap across the board. Too expensive for what they do, don't really do much of anything period. They can't score (sans Blood Angels shenanigans), suck in melee, and have poor shooting compared to other marine options. There's no real role for them on the tabletop which, combined with their price makes them lame outside of a beer n' pretzels match.

But like. . Sometimes I want two gitz