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Hey all, I am fairly new to guard and have picked them up after the codex update. I will be painting and building DKoK for this army so I wanted to start off with a smaller list that would be easier to put together without any huge investment. I have never really played with guard besides a few small games borrowing a friends army so hopefully I got it right. Also I wanted to include an imperial knight I have just finished painting for fun.

Imperial knight (paladin) 375

Guard

Hq-

Company command squad (80)
regimental standard
vox caster

Troops

Platoon command squad (45)
Vox caster
Regimental standard

x2 Infantry squad (60 for one 120 in total)
x2 melta gun

Heavy weapons squad (75)
3x autocannons


Veteran squad (95)
x2 meltas
grenadier upgrade

dedicated chimera (65)

Veteran squad
x2 meltas
grenadier upgrade

Dedicated chimera

Heavy

Leman Russ (180)
Lascannon
Heavy bolter sponsons

Leman Russ (180)
Lascannon
Heavy bolter sponsons

Tank commander (30)


Aegis defence line w/ quad gun (100)

So the list comes out to 1455 points and I think it looks solid. But I was wondering what the rest of you thought and what I should spend the last 45 points on.

 Ustrello wrote:
Hey all, I am fairly new to guard and have picked them up after the codex update. I will be painting and building DKoK for this army so I wanted to start off with a smaller list that would be easier to put together without any huge investment. I have never really played with guard besides a few small games borrowing a friends army so hopefully I got it right. Also I wanted to include an imperial knight I have just finished painting for fun.

Imperial knight (paladin) 375

Guard

Hq-

Company command squad (80)
regimental standard
vox caster

Solid. If you have points, you might fancy throwing in a Lascannon or Autocannon (or a Master of Ordnance) if you have the points so they can hurt something as well as handing out orders. It's not essential though.

Troops

Platoon command squad (45)
Vox caster
Regimental standard

PCS can't take a regimental Standard, so I'm assuming you mean the Platoon Standard, which is generally not worth taking. The best PCS setups are running 4x flamers for great defensive unit or 4 Sniper Rifles for some precision/pinning.

x2 Infantry squad (60 for one 120 in total)
x2 melta gun

Heavy weapons squad (75)
3x autocannons

To be honest, I think you'd be better going for another Infatry squad and folding in the AC to the blob, as HWTs on their own are pretty vulnerable. 3 IS with melta and AC is better than 2 with AC and a HWS. Also, if you have the points Lascannons are worth taking, as they beat the Autocannon against most targets.

Veteran squad (95)
x2 meltas
grenadier upgrade

dedicated chimera (65)

Veteran squad
x2 meltas
grenadier upgrade

Dedicated chimera

These guys are fine, but maybe throw on the 3rd melta if you have points spare. Given you've got Grenadiers you shouldn't be afraid to disembark if need be, and 3 meltas will nuke anything into oblivion.

Heavy

Leman Russ (180)
Lascannon
Heavy bolter sponsons

Leman Russ (180)
Lascannon
Heavy bolter sponsons

Tank commander (30)

If anything, these are the bits I don't like. The Ordnance ruling on the Russ means you have to Snap-Fire the LC and HB if you fire the main gun, making those upgrades a bit useless. In general, it's better to specialise with Russes, so I'd suggest a Vanquisher with LC and PC for anti-tank/MC, and an Exterminator with HB for anti-infantry/transport. Give the Vanquisher the Command upgrade, and use the split-fire order to hit 2 targets a turn.

Aegis defence line w/ quad gun (100)

So the list comes out to 1455 points and I think it looks solid. But I was wondering what the rest of you thought and what I should spend the last 45 points on.

My priorities with altering this/spending the last few points:
- Change the Russes to more effective and specialised variants (may actually save a few points)
- Make the Infantry Platoon 3 squads with the heavy weapons in the infantry squads rather than separate.
- If you have points left, add some more melta or Lascannons.

A good basis for a list, though, and I hope this helped.

Thanks for the advice. This is what I came up with

Imperial knight (paladin) 375

Hq

Company command squad- 80
Vox caster
Regimental standard

Troops

Platoon command squad- 40
1 flamer
vox caster

IS x3 70 each (210 in total)
Melta
AC team

Veteran squad x 2 105 each (210 in total)
Grenadier upgrade
3x meltas
Dedicated chimera (65 each)

Heavy

Vanquisher- 175
Lascannon
Plasma cannon sponsons
tank commander- 30

Exterminator 160
Lascannon
Heavy bolter sponsons

So that comes out to 1495, I was able to fit most of the suggestions but not all of the flamers in the PCS

Overall, looks pretty solid. With a few more tweaks it could be a little better. I'd echo Paradigm, so would suggest you get rid of the Lascannon on the Exterminator. Just keep it with the Heavy Bolter.

You've got vox casters on the CCS and PCS, but none in any of your squads. Both the ordering officer and the ordered unit need voxes for you to be able to reroll failed orders, so currently those voxes aren't really doing anything (unless the intent is for the CCS to command the PCS etc)

Also, one more thing... taking the Tank Commander, makes both your tanks a single HQ choice, and no longer Heavy Support. Usually it won't make any difference, but could do, like in Big Guns Never Tire missions where Heavy Support count as scoring units.

What's your general tactic with the army?

Well thats easy enough, I just drop the exterminator's lascannon and I have enough points to give all three IS vox casters.

Also I forgot about the tank commander, but I feel that BS 4 on the vanquisher would make up for that.

The general tactic? The veteran squads will melt faces with the meltas. The vanquisher and knight will go on armor hunting mode, the exterminator will be a anti horde tank and the normal infantry will start behind the aegis and eventually move when i need scoring units.

Second list looks much better. To be honest, you'd get away with the Lascannon on the Exterminator, as it gives a little more overlap with the Vanquisher if the Split-Fire order doesn't go off or if you want the shoot+smoke order.

You've got 5 points left, so that's 1 more flamer on the PCS.

But wouldn't three vox casters be better on the IS squads than a lascannon and extra flamer?

It's you call. I've never been a fan of voxes to be honest, so I'd take the Lascannon. That still leaves you with 5 points, and you only need one vox for the blob.

Oh I forgot to include the aegis defense line with the icarus lascannon in the second list


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So you can still re roll orders with just a vox in the PCS to the other three infantry squads?

You need a vox in the ordering unit and the target unit, but I was assuming you would be combining the Infantry Squads into 1 squad, meaning you'd only need 1 vox in the PCS and one in the Infantry Combined Squad.

Oh no I just wrote it that way so it wasn't all cluttered. But I have three infantry squads with one ac and one melta and two veteran squads with their upgrades.

Fair enough then. It wasn't how you'd written it that confused me, just the fact that I always tend to combine squads, and there's been a lot of talk about combined squads in the Tactics section, so I figured that was where this was going.

If you're running them separate, then voxes are a tough call, as it's a bigger investment and each unit is getting a much smaller effect from orders than a combined squad. Personally, I'd go without vox for separate squads and keep the lascannon.

Is there anything better about combining? I know it would be better for first rank second rank and rout tests

The Pros of combining:
- less kill points on the board
- better on overwatch
- better return on investment from orders and other buffs
- more clout in CC
- less prone to leadership issues

The Cons of combining:
- can be hard to manoeuvre (Although 30 shouldn't be an issue)
- can be used as 'speedbumps' to enemy assaults
- each enemy attack can kill 10 guys max.

It's really down to preference, but I'd combine, as I like to get the most out of orders.

More likely than not the infantry squads will be behind the aegis does that effect my choice? Also is that even a good choice?

Infantry behind an ADL are always solid, in this case the meltas are more defensive and the autocannons are blasting away as the main weapon.

The ADL probably won't affect the choice to blob or not, either way they can all get saves. As there are merits to both sides, all I can really suggest is to try combined and uncombined lists and see what works for you. Both are good choices, so it's really up to you.

Okay I will try both, also because I am good at math the list actually comes out to 1465. So I will be able to keep the las cannon since it was already included in the original list, I will also be able to give the infantry squads vox casters and the three flamers back to the PCS for a total of 1495 points

Awesome, good luck with the list.